From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id +I9oGTvvxmJTSgEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 16:35:39 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id uB1hGTvvxmKoGwEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 16:35:39 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 375832AB5D for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 16:34:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48934 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o9SaZ-0003I8-8T for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 10:34:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43102) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o9SaF-0003ET-EP for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 10:34:23 -0400 Received: from jpoiret.xyz ([206.189.101.64]:54890) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o9SaD-00051i-Ro for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 10:34:23 -0400 Received: from authenticated-user (jpoiret.xyz [206.189.101.64]) by jpoiret.xyz (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0D2B6184F7F; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 14:34:18 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jpoiret.xyz; s=dkim; t=1657204459; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=fvlfq31JCs8lRWdxpb1wD/FF2aJAcbzvZaPMgHmDD7E=; b=XMOhJ61PNLrf8g1IKcxXSgSGrgJnixHHK3FHDuaaJ3g42Kv3njMerSxLwCEEAXbR1Zo0V1 WEtWrO+lQ6IAYx7HoAuKeugnkrBsZkB6XlFEI21KgO6FPU5D8Hn6FoEDNSxa3xMeYuQSRi TSg4sibgH/BR22zTYDJ9UzzxqOldhYqXEeA/6KVVmRTX1Yq1IB+PKFoTnEojhAYMDzP/CD HcNSVfx5YygsY5k5vTTf9acy6fdCUWgMNEX7M0J57DrTnA3WCqhI7m4IczDgphO5sn6Qdr YEQZ1/E/F3PUQtz7gj9X6nK6oNW/DHW+tz6hGCi0sGyMgIdEy1ehKgmP+nJEaw== From: Josselin Poiret To: Zhu Zihao Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Building, packaging and updating Guix with confidence In-Reply-To: <867d4pjedm.fsf@163.com> References: <87let6roxo.fsf@jpoiret.xyz> <867d4pjedm.fsf@163.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2022 16:34:17 +0200 Message-ID: <87h73trnyu.fsf@jpoiret.xyz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spamd-Bar: / Received-SPF: pass client-ip=206.189.101.64; envelope-from=dev@jpoiret.xyz; helo=jpoiret.xyz X-Spam_score_int: 4 X-Spam_score: 0.4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.499, PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=1.997, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1657204484; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=fvlfq31JCs8lRWdxpb1wD/FF2aJAcbzvZaPMgHmDD7E=; b=AIb9jSyXNTlIDF3rrZN5V9xQMwfjw9ntjMbMuIZVjnktAwFixQjKpzzTZ9d3Lt2HUr3M3Z NR0JoPEA1s0lD78VicgV/83jivmzas9v2avYskUcyMIh77egAJt3ohnnlblG2TEqoR6AdW kjje2qlQD6yDKSUjX4MGRRALLcr9jkgBlnyYDCMZlVJfw3JgRsSkBYZJoCiXJnaUu55WLl fWANeRdaAYVJYL5JfqSNTG5BIKoJGp9hbwk/sP1fT7oDBhidWZ4dUQ0L5LzMZqql+N9afu juz23rpaXNLHRlK5tlfy8/woP2Nxbt7QWW9XCGHJZbcJkEdz+PFlJ9qvb7PxUw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1657204484; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=IrBPlrr4kve/1SpvH+UOeSnmy3On89x71FLMvXEJ7WXm3vPpEF3voGIHUX1c3OYcchko4V OQwsuLTp4uyyCI9KyeRwL3rUKFxGw2XS9CxrmAA4tbp3+3G1vH17pQeksvcU9kBYoQ07DI 01/eyKzIYec1x/ymTaIqlLy5rBBSgSyrZ2EI1lt8SK3h9O3+GJNuvalw/4ukl/QiJmNbu/ FabCaeaHpXxefYI22pYDiM/IbBvXOa+K2qLe01aCJVBJ4dderu5mZsmdZ85lGO3kjDtCCM TYPPi7FUkazguPqMKp3zw9HTES6nudzeWxVRTT/lDJ8LwiEhAz/PJ5lNEXgjDg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=jpoiret.xyz header.s=dkim header.b=XMOhJ61P; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=jpoiret.xyz; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.45 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=jpoiret.xyz header.s=dkim header.b=XMOhJ61P; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=jpoiret.xyz; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 375832AB5D X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: o/fsr3OtdgTf Hello, Zhu Zihao writes: > If your foreign function use case is very trivial? Why not give Guile > dynamic FFI a try? That could be another option, but I'd like to have autoconf be able to detect whether the target supports things like posix_spawn and getrlimit, which I use in the code. > It's possible to use guix channel to test a local guix repo. A short > example here. Right, but for the example of adding extensions it won't work since there's a part of `guix pull` that uses the guix package, as well as in the installer or system-wide Guix, as I outlined before. The issue [1] I outlined in the opening mail was an issue that is specific to the guix package method, so there really isn't a way to uniformly test changes without knowing the intricacies of the different builds and where they end up (I do know these, having run into these issues myself before). > This is somewhat "the bootstrap problem". It's very ideal if we can > describe the build graph in Guix with derivations. But we still need a > daemon first to process derivations. So we need to build daemon without > Guix. I don't think that's the case, (guix self) relies on a working daemon connection before anything else, the built daemon will just be a part of the resulting `guix pull` profile, but won't be used to build the new Guix (as a matter of fact, the build daemon is built... using the build daemon!). > This issue may be solved by rewriting daemon in Guile. If daemon is > written in Guile. We can run it without compilation. I don't think this is directly related, although some changes that we could bring to it would definitely ease what I'm proposing here: having a way to build things directly without relying on a root-owned daemon running would make the bootstrapping problem easier to solve. Best, -- Josselin Poiret