ActtivityPub and Haunt

ActtivityPub and Haunt

[indieterminacy]

In wider fediverse news,

The ActivityPub webpage is getting a rejig:
https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-rocks-portal-from-standards-movement-to-grassroots-fedi/3577

Im emailing, as within the technical discourse page is whether the tech 
stack should be moved away from (scheme based) Haunt (which powers 
Guix's website):
https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-rocks-portal-technical-discussion/3578

Naturally, Id be keen on continuing the furrow carved by Christine 
Lemmer-Webber and thought it would be worth seeing if there are any 
Lispers here who would be keen on volunteering, lest the platform goes 
Typescript.

At my end, I consider the benefits to i18n to be a useful synergy:
https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-rocks-portal-technical-discussion/3578/3

If you agree, Id love you contribute your input there.


-- 
Jonathan McHugh
indieterminacy@libre.brussels

Re: ActtivityPub and Haunt

[Thompson, David]

Hi Jonathan,

On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 11:48 AM indieterminacy
<indieterminacy@libre.brussels> wrote:
>
> In wider fediverse news,
>
> The ActivityPub webpage is getting a rejig:
> https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-rocks-portal-from-standards-movement-to-grassroots-fedi/3577
>
> Im emailing, as within the technical discourse page is whether the tech
> stack should be moved away from (scheme based) Haunt (which powers
> Guix's website):
> https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-rocks-portal-technical-discussion/3578
>
> Naturally, Id be keen on continuing the furrow carved by Christine
> Lemmer-Webber and thought it would be worth seeing if there are any
> Lispers here who would be keen on volunteering, lest the platform goes
> Typescript.
>
> At my end, I consider the benefits to i18n to be a useful synergy:
> https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-rocks-portal-technical-discussion/3578/3
>
> If you agree, Id love you contribute your input there.

I'm the creator and maintainer of Haunt. I can't volunteer time to
maintain activitypub.rocks but I can help answer questions about Haunt
and help with bug fixes, patch review, etc. for Haunt itself. Haunt
posts can be written in Markdown, BTW.  You don't have to layer on the
obscurity by using a format like Skribe (even though Skribe is cool.)
I haven't integrated anything i18n related in Haunt itself because I
don't know a lot about it, but Guix being able to add in i18n on top
of what Haunt provides is a good sign that it's workable. I'm totally
open to include built-in i18n features in future releases.

I also understand and sympathize that keeping Haunt will probably be
swimming upstream against the pressure to be more mainstream.  I guess
a positive spin on things is that ActivityPub has succeeded enough to
call attention to all the Scheme that was cleverly snuck in when
Christine was the driving force of the project. It's been a small
point of pride that activitypub.rocks was built with Haunt, so it
would be a bit disappointing to see it go away, but I understand that
whatever is easiest for the volunteers actually doing the work is the
right thing. Scheme is *obviously* better than TypeScript, though. ;)

- Dave

Re: ActtivityPub and Haunt

[Christine Lemmer-Webber]

"Thompson, David" <dthompson2@worcester.edu> writes:

> Hi Jonathan,
>
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 11:48 AM indieterminacy
> <indieterminacy@libre.brussels> wrote:
>>
>> In wider fediverse news,
>>
>> The ActivityPub webpage is getting a rejig:
>> https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-rocks-portal-from-standards-movement-to-grassroots-fedi/3577
>>
>> Im emailing, as within the technical discourse page is whether the tech
>> stack should be moved away from (scheme based) Haunt (which powers
>> Guix's website):
>> https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-rocks-portal-technical-discussion/3578
>>
>> Naturally, Id be keen on continuing the furrow carved by Christine
>> Lemmer-Webber and thought it would be worth seeing if there are any
>> Lispers here who would be keen on volunteering, lest the platform goes
>> Typescript.
>>
>> At my end, I consider the benefits to i18n to be a useful synergy:
>> https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-rocks-portal-technical-discussion/3578/3
>>
>> If you agree, Id love you contribute your input there.
>
> I'm the creator and maintainer of Haunt. I can't volunteer time to
> maintain activitypub.rocks but I can help answer questions about Haunt
> and help with bug fixes, patch review, etc. for Haunt itself. Haunt
> posts can be written in Markdown, BTW.  You don't have to layer on the
> obscurity by using a format like Skribe (even though Skribe is cool.)
> I haven't integrated anything i18n related in Haunt itself because I
> don't know a lot about it, but Guix being able to add in i18n on top
> of what Haunt provides is a good sign that it's workable. I'm totally
> open to include built-in i18n features in future releases.
>
> I also understand and sympathize that keeping Haunt will probably be
> swimming upstream against the pressure to be more mainstream.  I guess
> a positive spin on things is that ActivityPub has succeeded enough to
> call attention to all the Scheme that was cleverly snuck in when
> Christine was the driving force of the project. It's been a small
> point of pride that activitypub.rocks was built with Haunt, so it
> would be a bit disappointing to see it go away, but I understand that
> whatever is easiest for the volunteers actually doing the work is the
> right thing. Scheme is *obviously* better than TypeScript, though. ;)
>
> - Dave

I'd love to see ap.rocks maintained in its Haunt form.  I'm not so sure
we're going to see it happen.  It's more important that it continues and
survives I suppose, ultimately... and the people maintaining it will
have to make the decisions on what tools they want to use.

But I will hands-down say that Haunt was an EXCELLENT environment for
writing ap.rocks.  The implementation guide page especially is a great
demonstration of Haunt's power:

  https://activitypub.rocks/implementation-report/

Check out reports.scm:

  https://gitlab.com/dustyweb/activitypub.rocks/-/blob/master/www/reports.scm?ref_type=heads

Pretty cool, yeah?  Well, I thought so... I can't imagine doing anything
like that as easily in any of the other static site generators I've
used.

Which was autogenerated from reports that used the AP test suite (also
Guile based, and sadly long down... though someone's been working on
reviving (and rewriting) it...)

Haunt treats a website as a program and its output as evaluating that
program.  That combined with sxml is a really cool environment.  Most of
the rest of the world hasn't realized as such I guess.  Oh well...

 - Christine

Re: ActtivityPub and Haunt

[Reza Housseini]

[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 534 bytes --]

> But I will hands-down say that Haunt was an EXCELLENT environment for
> writing ap.rocks.  The implementation guide page especially is a great
> demonstration of Haunt's power:
> 
>    https://activitypub.rocks/implementation-report/

pretty cool stuff indeed! I also checked out the software mentioned on 
the page, are there any attempts at packaging some of the software e.g. 
microblog.pub?

-- 
Reza Housseini

This message is signed with my GnuPG key:

     C0F3 0812 9AF2 80F4 0830 C2C1 C375 C6AF 0512 5C52


[-- Attachment #1.1.2: OpenPGP public key --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-keys, Size: 15557 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 488 bytes --]

Re: ActtivityPub and Haunt

[Efraim Flashner]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 861 bytes --]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 10:03:13PM +0200, Reza Housseini wrote:
> > But I will hands-down say that Haunt was an EXCELLENT environment for
> > writing ap.rocks.  The implementation guide page especially is a great
> > demonstration of Haunt's power:
> > 
> >    https://activitypub.rocks/implementation-report/
> 
> pretty cool stuff indeed! I also checked out the software mentioned on the
> page, are there any attempts at packaging some of the software e.g.
> microblog.pub?

Looks like I was starting to work on it at some point. Not sure why I
stopped.

https://git.sr.ht/~efraim/my-guix/tree/master/item/wip/microblog-pub.scm


-- 
Efraim Flashner   <efraim@flashner.co.il>   רנשלפ םירפא
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: ActtivityPub and Haunt

[indieterminacy]

On 29-09-2023 14:10, Efraim Flashner wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 10:03:13PM +0200, Reza Housseini wrote:
>> > But I will hands-down say that Haunt was an EXCELLENT environment for
>> > writing ap.rocks.  The implementation guide page especially is a great
>> > demonstration of Haunt's power:
>> >
>> >    https://activitypub.rocks/implementation-report/
>> 
>> pretty cool stuff indeed! I also checked out the software mentioned on 
>> the
>> page, are there any attempts at packaging some of the software e.g.
>> microblog.pub?
> 
> Looks like I was starting to work on it at some point. Not sure why I
> stopped.
> 
> https://git.sr.ht/~efraim/my-guix/tree/master/item/wip/microblog-pub.scm

Should you want a good place to harvest I strongly recommend this list:
https://delightful.club/delightful-fediverse-apps/
https://codeberg.org/fediverse/delightful-fediverse-apps

As can be imagined, some of these softwares have stacks which Guix is 
not so usually adept at packaging.

However, there are more minimalist and packaging friendly ones than the 
(interesting) Python one you have started with.

If anybody wants some suggestions of low hanging fruit just message me 
and I can suggest a hitlist.

-- 
Jonathan McHugh
indieterminacy@libre.brussels

Re: ActtivityPub and Haunt

[Christine Lemmer-Webber]

indieterminacy <indieterminacy@libre.brussels> writes:

> As can be imagined, some of these softwares have stacks which Guix is
> not so usually adept at packaging.

As a side note, I suspect the major paint point of *all* of these
systems, which is the Javascript side for user-facing interface stuff,
can at last have a path out we can help contribute to without needing to
untangle NPM and friends: Spritely's Hoot project should allow us to
deliver browser-side scheme execution very soon!

That will make Guile a *much* more interesting target for web
development :)

 - Christine

Re: ActtivityPub and Haunt

[Munyoki Kilyungi]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1350 bytes --]

Christine Lemmer-Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org>
aliandika:

> indieterminacy <indieterminacy@libre.brussels> writes:
>
>> As can be imagined, some of these softwares have stacks which Guix is
>> not so usually adept at packaging.
>
> As a side note, I suspect the major paint point of *all* of these
> systems, which is the Javascript side for user-facing interface stuff,
> can at last have a path out we can help contribute to without needing to
> untangle NPM and friends: Spritely's Hoot project should allow us to
> deliver browser-side scheme execution very soon!
>
> That will make Guile a *much* more interesting target for web
> development :)
>
Also, if I may chime in: folk use Javascript to
more or less achieve some type of interactivity.
This is something I've had to explore at work, and
I'm settling on scheme for a back-end and HTMX for
a front-end if one needs fancy things that can't
be pulled to the back-end.  My point is, for
interface facing stuff, one could try and keep
that javascript to a minimum---Javascript fatigue
anyone?---and consequently, one would not have to
worry about NPM and friends.  Just my 2¢s.

-- 
(Life is like a pencil that will surely run out,
    but will leave the beautiful writing of life.)
(D4F09EB110177E03C28E2FE1F5BBAE1E0392253F
    (hkp://keys.openpgp.org))

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 865 bytes --]