From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:c151::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id gDZ4CN15U2C9OgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 16:03:41 +0000 Received: from aspmx2.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:c151::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id IN84BN15U2CfeAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 16:03:41 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx2.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6573ADC31 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 17:03:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41108 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lMv7b-0000Pl-B8 for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:03:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lMv4W-0006xo-OG for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:00:28 -0400 Received: from cascadia.aikidev.net ([2600:3c01:e000:267:0:a171:de7:c]:37328) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lMv4U-0000Ia-FS; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:00:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:21:21:21:0:100b]) (Authenticated sender: vagrant@cascadia.debian.net) by cascadia.aikidev.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F136A1A904; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:00:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Vagrant Cascadian To: zimoun , =?utf-8?Q?L=C3=A9o?= Le Bouter , Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Are gzip-compressed substitutes still used? In-Reply-To: <86czvxuy4l.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87im94qbby.fsf@gnu.org> <94405d66-b13c-e6e6-e8d5-df23b93e5d97@web.de> <87im92voqw.fsf@dismail.de> <87ft3d2fge.fsf@yamatai> <87bldr191v.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9bzmat1.fsf@guixSD.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <87im7hj6cb.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87im5p3dsq.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8fhwt3t.fsf@yucca> <86czvxuy4l.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:00:20 -0700 Message-ID: <87eegcwiy3.fsf@yucca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: none client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:267:0:a171:de7:c; envelope-from=vagrant@debian.org; helo=cascadia.aikidev.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1616083420; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=zejSN1TdxDh4SK6NSASzoA0sPSSF2n5Ube1vjKM6QVo=; b=CIlc78T6G7nsUFEn+iS/BYPZ784gQvglNetiFrJIQrZ/szEqvOf9aUVgZis2j21hmbTCTR A/9X8eZ/6onm0erCexL/lnFX/yfDHJhNOOQKy+5dvGLARR/OCXz9exJGyCIpOpxEd9Ue5/ oWQrPYttSznSsRb/vDH6S3RUuBIfhknO47W0tTTYyX6admO9MMrZEpA08U1L7CwJ5im3Rw ZLobGC0oy1VyFI1jvNcMHY2cgRIUjGJVct296Yx/Ry7Iz5uGoPe40ohgB5LBDIklQkQPqC D6nPuEFpuq6o2r1JBcdCSg5wkeCG2GmT6VGxxCptdeh/548QaWuVJIq5XqaRuA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1616083420; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=PQPGiBSKS6gn4lG6NmJrlJUwSxfx/3EFzvNAfXt7C2H+//jsEtVTjHWbDOr7ULao3aGQ0m S/Vlr0/7vWhCKNeW8emVZZzY+2TgcoMKwhhAbimI3jImHqFCxDXE0akkdGWZo8/2JFTTax ngA/fquLrWt4/ztYp5YiCFZD9+gE3Hb+fprNOwTVrnUsee7O/mIUmTmHNALSCjnaGYW5JY hlGqd+c9TMDjTIfvxbWYfrOImznitGWZLCfLTWAFPg8miUlZWj+fNFnU318k2NdT6JliXx TuaCRjlqQofHpaAm9Uv/fV7Ht8/ZqNjefWJSBRcAYhNfvQX9PQ8RENFZ+z0bkA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.51 Authentication-Results: aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6573ADC31 X-Spam-Score: -1.51 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: wvCna+5Nvuhy --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2021-03-18, zimoun wrote: > On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 at 11:08, Vagrant Cascadian wrot= e: > >> ... and I would expect this version to ship in Debian for another ~3-5 >> years, unless it gets removed from Debian bullseye before the upcoming >> (real soon now) release! > > I could miss a point. In 3-5 years, some people will be still running > Debian stable (or maybe oldstable or maybe this stable is LTS), so they > will =E2=80=9Capt install guix=E2=80=9D at 1.2.0, right? But then there = is no guarantee > that Berlin will still serve this 5 years old binary substitutes. But > =E2=80=9Cguix install=E2=80=9D fallback by compiling what is missing, rig= ht? Sure. > Then the question will be: are the upstream sources still available? > Assuming that SWH is still alive at this future, all the git-fetch > packages will have their source, whatever the upstream status. For > all the other methods, there is no guarantee. There is never a guarantee of source availability from third parties; one of the downsides of the Guix approach to source management vs. Debian (e.g. all released sources are mirrored on Debian-controlled infrastructure ... which brings up an interesting aside; could Debian, OpenSuSE, Fedora, etc. archives could be treated as a fallback mirror for upstream tarballs). > On the other hand, at this 3-5 years future, after =E2=80=9Capt install g= uix=E2=80=9D, > people will not do =E2=80=9Cguix install=E2=80=9D but instead they should= do =E2=80=9Cguix > pull=E2=80=9D. Therefore, the compression of substitutes does not matter= that > much, right? Except for issues like the openssl bug which causes build failure due to certificate expiry in the test suite basically would break guix pull in those cases... maybe that is a deal breaker for the Debian packaged guix... > The only strong backward compatibility seems between =E2=80=9Cguix pull= =E2=80=9D rather > than all the substitutes themselves. Isn=E2=80=99t it? Other said, at l= east > keep all the necessary to have =E2=80=9Cguix pull=E2=80=9D at 1.2.0 be ab= le to complete. The guix-daemon is still run from the packaged version installed as /usr/bin/guix-daemon, so would need to be patched to get updates for new features and ... in light of https://issues.guix.gnu.org/47229 ... security updates! It is of course possible to configure to use an updated guix-daemon from a user's profile (e.g. as recommended with guix-binary installation on a foreign distro), but out-of-the-box it uses the guix-daemon shipped in the package, which, at least with my Debian hat on, is how it should be. > Thanks for this opportunity to think at such time scale. :-) Heh. :) live well, vagrant --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRlgHNhO/zFx+LkXUXcUY/If5cWqgUCYFN5FAAKCRDcUY/If5cW qorrAPwNHc/QhWNxPIM4M0ZLiVRjSJPgrYrCp1BQ77Rsmc0mOgEA5Z2yH98fvczt 3Iws1PpjT7qIkUdFJE4rXrENobcPegI= =tZ5i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--