Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Christopher Baines]

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Hey,

While I've been working on the software side of building things for
substitutes through the Guix Build Coordinator for over a year now [1],
I've only been personally pushing to bring the benefits to Guix users by
default for the last few weeks [2].

1: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-04/msg00323.html
2: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2021-05/msg00020.html

The strategy that currently seems most feasible is to add an additional
default source of substitutes: bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.

I think things are pretty much ready, you can find some information at
https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org/ . If you're up for trying out fetching
substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org, now is a good time to do so, and
please report back in terms of how it's working out for you.

If you're interested in the infrastructure behind bordeaux.guix.gnu.org,
these are the machines which are currently involved:

 - bayfront
   - running the coordinator
   - serving the substitutes
   - building things for x86_64-linux plus i686-linux

 - harbourfront
   - building things for x86_64-linux plus i686-linux

 - milano-guix-1
   - building things for x86_64-linux plus i686-linux

 - monokuma
   - building things for aarch64-linux

 - polaris
   - sometimes building things for powerpc64le-linux

Just let me know if you have any comments or questions.

Thanks,

Chris

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Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Joshua Branson]

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:

> Hey,
>
> While I've been working on the software side of building things for
> substitutes through the Guix Build Coordinator for over a year now [1],
> I've only been personally pushing to bring the benefits to Guix users by
> default for the last few weeks [2].
>
> 1: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-04/msg00323.html
> 2: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2021-05/msg00020.html
>
> The strategy that currently seems most feasible is to add an additional
> default source of substitutes: bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
>
> I think things are pretty much ready, you can find some information at
> https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org/ . If you're up for trying out fetching
> substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org, now is a good time to do so, and
> please report back in terms of how it's working out for you.

For those of you like me, who have trouble setting up the signing key,
here is a snippet that you can use to set up substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org:


#BEGIN_SRC scheme
(define %my-desktop-services
  (modify-services
      %desktop-services
    (guix-service-type
     config =>
     (guix-configuration
      (inherit config)
      (substitute-urls
       (append (list "https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org/")
               %default-substitute-urls))
      (authorized-keys
       (append
        (list
         (plain-file
                     "bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.signing.key"
                     "
(public-key
 (ecc
  (curve Ed25519)
  (q #7D602902D3A2DBB83F8A0FB98602A754C5493B0B778C8D1DD4E0F41DE14DE34F#)
  )
 )"))
        %default-authorized-guix-keys))))))


(operating-system
    ...
    (services (append (list (service dhcp-client-service-type)
                            (service openssh-service-type
                                     (openssh-configuration
                                      (openssh openssh-sans-x)
                                      (port-number 2222))))
                      %my-desktop-services)))

#+END_SRC

P.S.  Thanks to Christopher for helping me set this up in irc!

--
Joshua Branson (joshuaBPMan in #guix)
Sent from Emacs and Gnus
  https://gnucode.me
  https://video.hardlimit.com/accounts/joshua_branson/video-channels
  https://propernaming.org
  "You can have whatever you want, as long as you help
enough other people get what they want." - Zig Ziglar

Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> skribis:

> I think things are pretty much ready, you can find some information at
> https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org/ . If you're up for trying out fetching
> substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org, now is a good time to do so, and
> please report back in terms of how it's working out for you.

Neat!

> If you're interested in the infrastructure behind bordeaux.guix.gnu.org,
> these are the machines which are currently involved:
>
>  - bayfront
>    - running the coordinator
>    - serving the substitutes
>    - building things for x86_64-linux plus i686-linux
>
>  - harbourfront
>    - building things for x86_64-linux plus i686-linux
>
>  - milano-guix-1
>    - building things for x86_64-linux plus i686-linux
>
>  - monokuma
>    - building things for aarch64-linux
>
>  - polaris
>    - sometimes building things for powerpc64le-linux

Great that all this is covered.

I would love to have a POWER9 build machine in the main/default build
farm though.  Currently there’s the OSUOSL POWER9 VM but it’s not
“plugged in” (I think because it’s a machine not “under our control”
that OSUOSL is giving us access to for a limited time, IIUC).  Maybe
more of a topic for guix-sysadmin but we’ll have to coordinate on the
use of those few scarce resources.

Thanks for the update,
Ludo’.

Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

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Ludovic Courtès 写道：
> Currently there’s the OSUOSL POWER9 VM but it’s not
> “plugged in” (I think because it’s a machine not “under our 
> control”
> that OSUOSL is giving us access to for a limited time, IIUC).

Wait, if you don't know, who does?  I thought you were the one 
reticent about it.  I think we should add it.

Like any donated hosting the offer could end tomorrow, but that 
just means the VM goes away, not that OSUOSL co-opts it to install 
the office Minetest server.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> skribis:

> Ludovic Courtès 写道：
>> Currently there’s the OSUOSL POWER9 VM but it’s not
>> “plugged in” (I think because it’s a machine not “under our control”
>> that OSUOSL is giving us access to for a limited time, IIUC).
>
> Wait, if you don't know, who does?  I thought you were the one
> reticent about it.  I think we should add it.

Yes, I’m usually reticent about using build machines not “under our
control”, and trying to be consistent at that.  :-)

> Like any donated hosting the offer could end tomorrow, but that just
> means the VM goes away, not that OSUOSL co-opts it to install the
> office Minetest server.

Yeah, maybe we should just plug it in.

Then there’s the issue that it won’t be able to keep up so we need a
custom Cuirass jobset or something.

BTW, did I mention we have budget?  :-)  Is there affordable POWER9
hardware we could purchase?

Ludo’.

Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> BTW, did I mention we have budget?  :-)  Is there affordable 
> POWER9
> hardware we could purchase?

Aside from that: do we have rack space for a POWER9 machine?

For a limited time I could probably host it at the MDC data 
centre, but moving rack hardware to some other location is messy, 
so I think it should go straight to its final destination.

-- 
Ricardo

Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Christopher Baines]

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Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes:

> Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> BTW, did I mention we have budget?  :-)  Is there affordable POWER9
>> hardware we could purchase?
>
> Aside from that: do we have rack space for a POWER9 machine?
>
> For a limited time I could probably host it at the MDC data centre,
> but moving rack hardware to some other location is messy, so I think
> it should go straight to its final destination.

It would be good to discuss what the options are here.

The hardware can probably not be described as inexpensive, but it's also
quite capable so not much is needed.

Would trying to acquire a 2U rack mount server, and host it in a proper
data centre be feasible? Because of both electricity usage and heat
generation, it's going to be more difficult to host residentially I
think.

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Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

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Christopher Baines 写道：
> Would trying to acquire a 2U rack mount server, and host it in a 
> proper
> data centre be feasible? Because of both electricity usage and 
> heat
> generation, it's going to be more difficult to host 
> residentially I
> think.

I thought Bayfront was hosted here[0], but we still pay €75 
instead of the €100 mentioned.  Perhaps Andreas has an 
understanding with them or was grandfathered in?

Kind regards,

T G-R

[0]: https://www.aquilenet.fr/services/h%C3%A9bergement-serveur/

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Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

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Tobias Geerinckx-Rice 写道：
> I thought

I could've just looked up the ASN :-)  It is.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi!

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> skribis:

> Christopher Baines 写道：
>> Would trying to acquire a 2U rack mount server, and host it in a
>> proper
>> data centre be feasible? Because of both electricity usage and heat
>> generation, it's going to be more difficult to host residentially I
>> think.
>
> I thought Bayfront was hosted here[0], but we still pay €75 instead of
> the €100 mentioned.  Perhaps Andreas has an understanding with them or
> was grandfathered in?

Yes, we could do the same.

Does anyone have cheaper (or gratis? :-)) hosting options in mind?

Ludo’.

Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Joshua Branson]

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> Hi!
>
> Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> skribis:
>
>> Christopher Baines 写道：
>>> Would trying to acquire a 2U rack mount server, and host it in a
>>> proper
>>> data centre be feasible? Because of both electricity usage and heat
>>> generation, it's going to be more difficult to host residentially I
>>> think.
>>
>> I thought Bayfront was hosted here[0], but we still pay €75 instead of
>> the €100 mentioned.  Perhaps Andreas has an understanding with them or
>> was grandfathered in?
>
> Yes, we could do the same.
>
> Does anyone have cheaper (or gratis? :-)) hosting options in mind?

Apologies if this is a silly/slighty off topic idea, but I thought I
would at least mention it...

I just bought a $250 refurbished Dell Optiplex 7020.  30 GB Ram. (Intel
says max Ram is 16GB...the RAM upgrader (crucial) says max ram is 30GB).
3 TB HDD.  4th generation Intel CPU.

I'm planning on having a simple server at home.  My ISP will let me run
my own server.  I'm not certain how good my internet connection will be,
but I would be interested in hosting a substitute server, though I would
guess that very quickly the cost of hosting it would get pretty
expensive...Just a thought.  A $250 desktop machine is fairly
inexpensive.  :)

Also, I just heard from Luke Leighton (from E0MA68 and the upcoming
libreGPU), that you could buy a raptor computer with 1TB of RAM for
about $40,000.  :)

>
> Ludo’.
>

--
Joshua Branson (joshuaBPMan in #guix)
Sent from Emacs and Gnus
  https://gnucode.me
  https://video.hardlimit.com/accounts/joshua_branson/video-channels
  https://propernaming.org
  "You can have whatever you want, as long as you help
enough other people get what they want." - Zig Ziglar

Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Christopher Baines]

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Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:

> While I've been working on the software side of building things for
> substitutes through the Guix Build Coordinator for over a year now [1],
> I've only been personally pushing to bring the benefits to Guix users by
> default for the last few weeks [2].
>
> 1: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-04/msg00323.html
> 2: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2021-05/msg00020.html
>
> The strategy that currently seems most feasible is to add an additional
> default source of substitutes: bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
>
> I think things are pretty much ready, you can find some information at
> https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org/ . If you're up for trying out fetching
> substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org, now is a good time to do so, and
> please report back in terms of how it's working out for you.

The patch to enable bordeaux.guix.gnu.org as a default substitute server
is available in [1].

1: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48435

I've created a wip-bordeaux branch [2] now which includes that patch,
plus a commit to update the guix package to build guix including it. I
think this will be helpful when testing the changes.

2: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/log/?h=wip-bordeaux

I've also drafted a blog post, which can be found here [3].

3: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-artwork.git/tree/website/drafts/substitutes-from-bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.md

If I can find the time to test things this week, maybe the changes in
#48435 can be merged on Friday. If anyone is up for testing things, or
reading through the blog post, that would be great.

Thanks,

Chris

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Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Christopher Baines]

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Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:

> Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:
>
>> While I've been working on the software side of building things for
>> substitutes through the Guix Build Coordinator for over a year now [1],
>> I've only been personally pushing to bring the benefits to Guix users by
>> default for the last few weeks [2].
>>
>> 1: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-04/msg00323.html
>> 2: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2021-05/msg00020.html
>>
>> The strategy that currently seems most feasible is to add an additional
>> default source of substitutes: bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
>>
>> I think things are pretty much ready, you can find some information at
>> https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org/ . If you're up for trying out fetching
>> substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org, now is a good time to do so, and
>> please report back in terms of how it's working out for you.
>
> The patch to enable bordeaux.guix.gnu.org as a default substitute server
> is available in [1].
>
> 1: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48435
>
> I've created a wip-bordeaux branch [2] now which includes that patch,
> plus a commit to update the guix package to build guix including it. I
> think this will be helpful when testing the changes.
>
> 2: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/log/?h=wip-bordeaux
>
> I've also drafted a blog post, which can be found here [3].
>
> 3: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-artwork.git/tree/website/drafts/substitutes-from-bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.md
>
> If I can find the time to test things this week, maybe the changes in
> #48435 can be merged on Friday. If anyone is up for testing things, or
> reading through the blog post, that would be great.

These changes are now in master, and I've published the blog post!

  https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2021/substitutes-now-also-available-from-bordeauxguixgnuorg/

As said in the blog post, I regard this as an important milestone. As a
change goes, the impact will be gradual, but I'm hoping in hindsight it
will be a step forward.

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Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Pjotr Prins]

Excellent!

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 03:56:30PM +0100, Christopher Baines wrote:
> 
> Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:
> 
> > Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:
> >
> >> While I've been working on the software side of building things for
> >> substitutes through the Guix Build Coordinator for over a year now [1],
> >> I've only been personally pushing to bring the benefits to Guix users by
> >> default for the last few weeks [2].
> >>
> >> 1: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-04/msg00323.html
> >> 2: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2021-05/msg00020.html
> >>
> >> The strategy that currently seems most feasible is to add an additional
> >> default source of substitutes: bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
> >>
> >> I think things are pretty much ready, you can find some information at
> >> https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org/ . If you're up for trying out fetching
> >> substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org, now is a good time to do so, and
> >> please report back in terms of how it's working out for you.
> >
> > The patch to enable bordeaux.guix.gnu.org as a default substitute server
> > is available in [1].
> >
> > 1: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48435
> >
> > I've created a wip-bordeaux branch [2] now which includes that patch,
> > plus a commit to update the guix package to build guix including it. I
> > think this will be helpful when testing the changes.
> >
> > 2: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/log/?h=wip-bordeaux
> >
> > I've also drafted a blog post, which can be found here [3].
> >
> > 3: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-artwork.git/tree/website/drafts/substitutes-from-bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.md
> >
> > If I can find the time to test things this week, maybe the changes in
> > #48435 can be merged on Friday. If anyone is up for testing things, or
> > reading through the blog post, that would be great.
> 
> These changes are now in master, and I've published the blog post!
> 
>   https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2021/substitutes-now-also-available-from-bordeauxguixgnuorg/
> 
> As said in the blog post, I regard this as an important milestone. As a
> change goes, the impact will be gradual, but I'm hoping in hindsight it
> will be a step forward.

Re: Substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi!

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> skribis:

> These changes are now in master, and I've published the blog post!
>
>   https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2021/substitutes-now-also-available-from-bordeauxguixgnuorg/
>
> As said in the blog post, I regard this as an important milestone. As a
> change goes, the impact will be gradual, but I'm hoping in hindsight it
> will be a step forward.

Thanks for doing this work and bringing it to completion!

I think a second independent build farm is a good thing to have—for
redundancy, availability, and to challenge package reproducibility.

Ludo’.