From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id ADZIMVxC1WJ9CwEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:22:04 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4L8kMVxC1WLdRQEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:22:04 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A03A326CE7 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:22:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48254 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDOp9-0006cU-1f for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:22:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36938) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDOoj-0006cC-Ga for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:21:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33898) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDOoi-0000cU-VR; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:21:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=pmBgWhSNeZKRXIIoLX8Bukog7Cdaf7OPT6mr9sZSlso=; b=crMgMQL9vFib9mmlsvlI 8AC8xr49GLk3sDQ25I8HfXd8Y2uK3F9z/4mSl7g/8gpoOoqudkE/Mbu7aRRQ/V03hktjkSSGuGuzy B7pIErsTBcwfzYFtKIw9ho87dHnVEBiNN5HTDDLM7Uee5ehEJMJ3gvs6bEaqpNtPllJdNQgECfwhF 9j8K1x7/e6PfTL9wPeGrPbkQ+bXvmDkoViXl7mVRfsp9O/SGmHRtnRDr2k8Z0+XN9mfaAA60WC5HI J2MgijUPhGHxKOdpP7Fsx7LNojguLMqKNu2S64niCB+1ezQF77x5Hp1Kc0MRXZEkyK0Yu2/jVzzZ6 vLwSXkwrnrne6A==; Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=37568 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDOoi-00071N-EO; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:21:36 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Vagrant Cascadian Cc: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice , =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A1bor?= Boskovits , Guix Devel , Efraim Flashner , Julien Lepiller , Felix Lechner Subject: Re: maradns reproducibility fixes and the merits of picking a random number References: <87pmjlfdjl.fsf@contorta> <310AD876-916E-4020-A87E-5609E8166432@lepiller.eu> <87a6amgak1.fsf@contorta> <87r13grv6a.fsf@contorta> <87leth7ev6.fsf@contorta> <4BD0EAF3-DFA2-47B0-AFA0-AEAA2393F2A5@tobias.gr> <87letg21eb.fsf@contorta> <8C490441-06FA-45FE-BB0F-5E9C99DE0542@tobias.gr> <87lesz83bw.fsf@contorta> <87ilo3832q.fsf@contorta> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: =?utf-8?Q?D=C3=A9cadi?= 30 Messidor an 230 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution=2C?= jour de la =?utf-8?Q?Chal=C3=A9mie?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:21:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87ilo3832q.fsf@contorta> (Vagrant Cascadian's message of "Mon, 11 Jul 2022 19:41:49 -0700") Message-ID: <87edyi1xa9.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1658143324; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=pmBgWhSNeZKRXIIoLX8Bukog7Cdaf7OPT6mr9sZSlso=; b=tz8A+CkqyMEr8GGM3O/pdC3HwQeJx5JkFRTDVBpzld2kOVv+aB/3WD1Vw3AM6arye38BaQ M64eFr5H4psAp/SdMsajqlspO5ucsglg56hB1/2PL4597+thtxHeXFZOx+g5a7k1qsuBq8 PMqAXFD1yvk5LYJ50POpCpi8sK2cxnt5rSi0QK5kJgGqUE262xENYuDwIWDMymTZ8ulEAv XNifTag19r2oiwTvN3jd4IuWmCXNRMk0pK4YEoM/6NnYyyGBYgfwlwyJvTEMVDym5o3zZ/ jitQC4U2mL1hGQa4/IrvNuUrdXZEheP7Y7qyUx/EqQlh0suaQkIuhnhNdGVMng== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1658143324; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=c76yQUo6MSaegNgzMuBhk+Rs0a+q7YBURZD5zl+rL9kDaVZlfr9lUb63GFQBY2kLvv7uPK TfEZZfPuunn5zDt5bjfIM54cZEemjYrqsRfDW4kVjyNu1+nPLQkxbNl3gCgg1KvfZ6HcHM TuY7gKH7XUA0gIlbjohQY7ThDATs5bTXYdaJBo4cSccNjlCLOF6DBLlBcH02XzhAuzzewj WBH1vX6hXz9nBQAN/c3I5lSd3jh82j+/8Jb9xvrpIDmC2I0hI0OAgpzHwKWDCodEW+Kjz7 3h/CsXOaC4lnvNFglGcsdd6QmzJp9tB15+73fr4dSZTbA0kd9SR6ZsrW7tynlA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=crMgMQL9; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.43 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=crMgMQL9; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A03A326CE7 X-Spam-Score: -5.43 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ClbN9iNSjx3Z Hi, Vagrant Cascadian skribis: > On 2022-07-11, Vagrant Cascadian wrote: >> I hear Efraim say better to have unique randomness and no substitutes, >> and I hear Tobias say more or less it's ok as long as upstream is right >> about it being ok to embed a specific prime as other random numbers get >> mixed in at runtime... > > Well, now that I hit send already, I guess another option is ... to have > both? > > One package without patches that is not substitutable and not > reproducible, and one with patches that is verifyably reproducible and > substitutable? Honestly, I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s worth bothering about the non-= substitutable trick. In practice, maradns should be able to rely on /dev/urandom at run time, right? Ludo=E2=80=99.