From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id +Gb6KGdeBmTHVQAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2023 22:43:03 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id IGsaKGdeBmQ7TAEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2023 22:43:03 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 704763A630 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2023 22:43:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pZIbS-0003AT-4N; Mon, 06 Mar 2023 16:42:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pZIbN-00037V-9p for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Mar 2023 16:42:38 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pZIbJ-00036V-Eu; Mon, 06 Mar 2023 16:42:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=DwiPE54c/yOMS32+f3qImf00Fybx5IuKxyc+EKe6rfs=; b=PDZBxNTtgZvGWx586CQA ITi8d5EtT/PvJh7jnYoyKVJT5fNS7AFuPog7bGJm10zVSpPPqfC71WJ4zyZ6sH5zPiwbiDAQ6iHAa oKxsPo3QQtsO2f1+pVaX5KwwCkUxMa4jbclzFjc9EM4N16qF5GAQ4vrohL6RkuDxJFE/wF9/qhUeF 9t8EnNdhAq5kytSXBQVCr/bo/0NGi84DIx37YKveAptFwdMw25BP9emy3a75hsXWwP6DjCGH4Ngie geNsDEJnu42H211imVmUgs01De6YjitHIl4qx8gqwj4w5M4HevmFHto7zYfrDkGdJqkSak6iaaCbe EWFbiIpXdLqubQ==; Received: from 91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net ([91.160.117.201] helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pZIbI-00022O-2i; Mon, 06 Mar 2023 16:42:32 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Maxim Cournoyer Cc: 61894@debbugs.gnu.org, guix-devel , guix-maintainers@gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#61894] [PATCH RFC] Team approval for patches References: <878rgga1qv.fsf@inria.fr> <87h6ux285h.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: Sextidi 16 =?utf-8?Q?Vent=C3=B4se?= an 231 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution=2C?= jour de =?utf-8?Q?l'=C3=89pinard?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2023 22:42:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87h6ux285h.fsf@gmail.com> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Mon, 06 Mar 2023 10:48:10 -0500") Message-ID: <87edq14kvu.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1678138983; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=DwiPE54c/yOMS32+f3qImf00Fybx5IuKxyc+EKe6rfs=; b=T6Pw7a7+gXtxSUm9eb+h1KMwvhfydnfvUyPE18S7S5g6R1N8AFAUKJkVuxnjkeLyQyyPna 7vtKxG/B6u1zkL8SCnu1KWnEk+oRdYNuPwkabRFiSzcdOX+E1Y7+hRfTdzVQ1gu/PzRTJE saaqyrmQYsQ3svbrIqFl25Z9JgsYX/H44qTC7Dswvws76otN8lQJ0h2MORVWCA+b02heoD //ImiXsJNdbGPg3z+7gdnXQae0hSATOR/BXyUmu7q3rdLw50KTYRfXzlH1L+u3SBD66A/A UrAxO9WNSbsiVazrftqOb1NHFxtp8RlSWmiDSe307wz6bkCXwUYOFubsODCsjg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=PDZBxNTt; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1678138983; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=MAXL3SaVzKhnKHVV31COHV3/WXJoP/Z53Dq+esz1kwV1UhX+0qbFNvQy5R8RNXFOAduzjL 219LOn9z4N+UeGXWGslXn/uXlJOgL/lZVj5bmuA5Jio4tA2Z+ma2vd29NhwI/Dg/AzasPo O3R9ZhpHdh7/0THspMzudwtcutg8jCZUJv25sXUCet4TXlqCwIiVNvRiMzL+USSZRT45rG 0GZRDhiBfY08/XOXPIUcopFJpb9DmYDmSnaNwMG3gxnes06K1c/g6ksmP9t8KQY7zj8t3r d11obhxp7Y/joqRktD21hNANjNVtXbcgF4Uz36WrZH52W9BmYnCw7mBMot9Rdw== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=PDZBxNTt; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.73 X-Spam-Score: -4.73 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 704763A630 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: MrDMhzndmWrA Hi, Maxim Cournoyer skribis: > It sounds reasonable and a good change "on paper", but in practice I > think it may be too soon to formalize teams that way. Teams are a > nascent concept which hasn't reached a point we can rely on it, in my > opinion. We are still ironing out kinks in the tools [0] :-). I'd > prefer we stay as nimble/agile as we can and maximize the potential of > our large committers pool for now, at the expense of sometimes having to > retroactively discussing/fixing up or reverting some change that wasn't > up to par, that could have possibly been caught by a more focused team. I think formalizing collaboration would be the way to =E2=80=9Cmaximize the potential of our large committer pool=E2=80=9D: by having clear rules, we m= ake it easier to work together, not harder. Retroactively fixing, reverting, or discussing often causes unnecessary friction and puts pressure on the collective. Discussion should always happen before the fact. We=E2=80=99ve reached the point where the code base is large and the experi= ences of individual contributors vary. To cope with that, I think we need to communicate and coordinate more to have a shared understanding of the code, of our goals, of our needs and expectations. We can no longer rely on implicitness and the idea that silence is consent. This proposal is one possible step in that direction, but I=E2=80=99m open = to other approaches. Ludo=E2=80=99.