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In-Reply-To: <87o7e7bi3i.fsf@wmeyer.eu> References: <877cll0ylg.fsf@fabionatali.com> <87bkaw7afn.fsf@wmeyer.eu> <87edfsxxjc.fsf@fabionatali.com> <874jgnxsuz.fsf@fabionatali.com> <87o7e7bi3i.fsf@wmeyer.eu> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2024 13:49:24 +0000 Message-ID: <87edf188pn.fsf@fabionatali.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-GND-Sasl: me@fabionatali.com Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:4b98:dc4:8::222; envelope-from=me@fabionatali.com; helo=relay2-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.55 X-Spam-Score: -6.55 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3995712AA6 X-TUID: RyG3e7qplHdw On 2023-12-30, 20:28 +0100, Wilko Meyer wrote: > As the 37c3 has ended today, were the sessions fun so far/did > everything go well? Curious to hear how things went and if you were > able to reach new folks interested in Guix at the event. Hi Wilko, Thanks for asking. Indeed I was thinking of writing a short post-37c3 recap to tell about the sessions, so this is a good opportunity. tl;dr. Congress (or 37c3) was great fun! We had two Guix self-organised sessions with very good turnout of participants. There's definitely interest around the project at Congress. My 2 cents is that we should think of organising ourselves in an "assembly"=E2=81=B0 next year, possibly together with other Lisp projects. Intro. We ended up having two Guix self-organised sessions, on Day 1 and Day 3, as per the following two posts on the 37c3 site: - Day 1, GNU Guix, an introduction=C2=B9 - Day 3, GNU Guix, a hands-on session=C2=B2 Congress self-organised sessions are non-official sessions that anybody can register on the event's portal, simply providing a description and saying when and where to meet up. Day 1, GNU Guix, an introduction. The introductory session on Day 1 wasn't so bad, I think. Given the low level of feedback on the Fediverse I was expecting very few people, instead I think we were north of 30 participants! (Do I live in a Fediverse bubble? Yes, I probably do.) We had to improvise a bit, sitting on the floor in circle and talking as loud as we could given the noisy environment. We had a round with everybody briefly explaining their experience with Guix. Then we mostly went through the following list of introductory topics. - Intro =F0=9F=91=8B - What's Guix? - Functional - Transactional - Declarative - A base system definition - Build and run a system definition 1/2 - A slightly more advanced system definition - Build and run a system definition 2/2 - Using Guix on a VPS - How it works - The Store - What's in a package? - Package dependencies - How many packages available? - Guix environments with guix shell - Guix for reproducibility - Guix as a package manager on a foreign distribution - Guix Home - Guix Home in a container - A more complicated example - Info on the current Guix Home - How to contribute - Resources Luckily I had put together a little web page so everyone could follow along looking at the website as we were going through the list. Nothing particularly valuable, but here=C2=B3 is the source code if anybody wants to look at the contents in more detail. After the session, people seemed generally happy and willing to try Guix or experiment with it more. Day 3, GNU Guix, a hands-on session. The session on Day 3 was more seriously limited by the same logistic problem. Without a projector/monitor, no chance of any meaningful hands-on work and all we could do was a round of "if there's a blocker that's preventing you from using Guix or from using it more, what is it and can we do anything about it?". Some of the problems discussed: - A participant mentioned a problem when trying to create a Guix package for some Python library. They said the number of missing dependencies was overwhelming and that they got a bit frustrated. We mentioned something about `guix import' but I don't think we did a great job at addressing the problem. - Someone said they had been trying to create a stripped-down version of Guix but they got a bit frustrated by some internal dependencies (e.g. avahi) that apparently can't be easily removed. - Someone mentioned some user-experience issue when working on Guix packages, e.g. with Geiser and the Guix REPL. Probably we didn't do a great job at providing answers/solutions. On the other hand, things would have been much easier if we had been in front of a monitor or in a context where we could split in small groups and do some pair-programming. Some of the participants might see this thread and be willing to provide their feedback too? Final considerations. There's definitely interest around Guix at Congress. The turnout at both sessions was more than I expected. I think we should consider forming a Congress Assembly next year, either as Guix itself, or possibly joining forces with other Lispy things? I don't think there was any Emacs assembly, for example. A Lisp assembly would have a huge potential! Having an assembly would help tremendously, as we'd be assigned our own fixed space where organise sessions, etc. Apologies for the long email. I hope it's useful feedback. Cheers, thanks, Fabio. - 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Communication_Congress - 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20231231042816/https://events.ccc.de/congr= ess/2023/hub/en/event/gnu-guix-an-introduction/ - 2: https://web.archive.org/web/20231231042326/https://events.ccc.de/congr= ess/2023/hub/en/event/gnu-guix-hands-on-session/ - 3: https://git.sr.ht/~fabionatali/guix-intro/tree/main/item/main.org --=20 Fabio Natali https://fabionatali.com