From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: website: say what Guix is at the very top Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 09:04:12 +0100 Message-ID: <87d1266zr7.fsf@elephly.net> References: <87inc0gzoz.fsf@elephly.net> <1e6cee12-07d0-6d08-1dcf-35ce19bdd58d@tobias.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33397) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ecYvm-00014f-Rv for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2018 10:50:16 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ecYvi-0001pL-TR for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2018 10:50:14 -0500 Received: from sender-of-o51.zoho.com ([135.84.80.216]:21052) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ecYvi-0001op-K7 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2018 10:50:10 -0500 In-reply-to: <1e6cee12-07d0-6d08-1dcf-35ce19bdd58d@tobias.gr> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Hi Tobias, > I don't know who wrote the current intro, but I think it's pretty good. > Have you got negative feedback from curious visitors? Unfortunately, I have. The most common feedback is an expression of confusion about the difference between GuixSD and Guix. But to be fair: this email was not triggered by negative feedback, but by my own failure to find a succint explanation of Guix on the home page. I had hoped to find a concise intro that I could send someone to explain what this Guix thing is all about but none of the sentences on the home page really did the job well enough. I ended up opening the Introduction section of the manual and edited it to reduce the number of words. > It's not just a list of features. The current intro is: > > - Liberating. The Guix System Distribution (GuixSD) is an advanced > distribution of the GNU operating system developed by the GNU > Project=E2=80=94which respects the freedom of computer users. > > - Dependable. It comes with the GNU Guix package manager, which in > addition to standard package management features, supports > transactional upgrades and roll-backs, unprivileged package > management, per-user profiles, and more. > > - Hackable. It provides Guile Scheme APIs, including high-level > embedded domain-specific languages (EDSLs) to define packages and > whole-system configurations. > > I like the way it mixes description, features, and values without > getting lost in marketing-speak. It also breaks up the text into small > chunks, which is apparently mandatory on the 'Net. Yes, I=E2=80=99m not saying it=E2=80=99s poorly written. I agree with all = of the positive things you wrote about the intro. What I don=E2=80=99t like is that it comes across as a list of features (si= ngle word after bullet) with further explanation of those features =E2=80=94 but that=E2=80=99s not what it is. It=E2=80=99s not even a list of features fo= r the same thing! >> We should add a very short paragraph above that list to say what Guix >> and GuixSD are. >>> What do you think? > > Hm, what do you suggest? I suggest moving the GuixSD parts to a sub-page first. What=E2=80=99s left= on the front-page would only be about Guix, the package manager. This means that the current first paragraph would disappear and would have to be replaced. The current second paragraph =E2=80=9CDependable=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D could be= split up such that we can elaborate a little more about the novel features of Guix. Right now it doesn=E2=80=99t real all *that* novel to me: - =E2=80=9Cstandard package management features=E2=80=9D - =E2=80=9Ctransactional upgrades and roll-backs=E2=80=9D: yum did that too= , but in quite a different way than Guix. - =E2=80=9Cunprivileged package management=E2=80=9D: this deserves to be hi= gher up - =E2=80=9Cper-user profiles, and more=E2=80=9D: ah, now it gets interestin= g, but the list is already too long, so we end immediately with =E2=80=9Cand more=E2= =80=9D. Hmm. I suggest to not even mention =E2=80=9Cstandard package management features= =E2=80=9D. Let=E2=80=99s look at the Conda intro. There are many things I don=E2=80= =99t like about it, but there are some things we can learn from it: https://conda.io/docs/index.html The first paragraph states: Conda is [a] package management system and environment management system that runs on Windows, macOS and Linux. Conda quickly installs, runs and updates packages and their dependencies. Conda easily creates, saves, loads and switches between environments on your local computer. [=E2=80=A6] It then drifts off and talks about Python all the time, but these first sentences clearly tell me what it does: package and environment management, installing packages and dependencies, creating/loading/switching between environments. Guix does all this but with reproducibility at its core, yet our introduction neither mentions reproducibility nor does it say anything about environments. -- Ricardo GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC https://elephly.net