From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: website: say what Guix is at the very top Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 17:24:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87bmhet0hc.fsf@elephly.net> References: <87inc0gzoz.fsf@elephly.net> <863732wf9z.fsf@gmail.com> <87efmm70re.fsf@elephly.net> <87r2qm3rfv.fsf@gnu.org> <87r2qj1d6o.fsf@elephly.net> <87a7x31gm6.fsf@gnu.org> <86372sdxz0.fsf@gmail.com> <87h8r71dp9.fsf@gnu.org> <867es3cgeq.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49803) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1efq09-00081v-Ie for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:40:19 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1efq07-0002Xo-72 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:40:17 -0500 Received: from sender-of-o51.zoho.com ([135.84.80.216]:21093) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1efq06-0002XH-Sn for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:40:15 -0500 In-reply-to: <867es3cgeq.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: myglc2@gmail.com Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, sirgazil Hi George, > You misunderstand. I do not propose changing names. I do propose that > you present Guix + GuixSD to the outside world in a unified way. I meant > "GuixE" as a "handle" to that idea. Sorry if that was misleading. I understand the idea, and I recognize that this is a possible means to address the overlap between Guix and the distribution. Since you can build virtual machine images of GuixSD even if you don=E2=80= =99t have GuixSD installed yourself, the difference between Guix and GuixSD may seem blurry. However, *installing* GuixSD and using it as distribution is *very different* from using Guix as a tool to build and share reproducible environments (be that as a Docker image, as a tarball, as a temporary environment, as a virtual machine image, or just by installing packages into a profile). GuixSD is both a natural extension of the ideas and features of Guix, but it is also a variant of the GNU system that you can install on your workstation, server, or laptop. > PRODUCT DESCRIPTION: > > The Guix software environment manager creates user environments that > are completely and independently specified by users. Guix users are > never stuck needing software that a Sysadmin can't, won't, or hasn't > installed. A Guix user can run multiple, differing environments > simultaneously and can replicate any environment on any Guix run-time > platform. I wouldn=E2=80=99t write it like this, but explicitly mentioning that users= can specify any number of reproducible environments is a good idea, in my opinion. > Guix provides system-wide environment management when > appropriate to the run-time platform. This sounds *really* vague, and it shows that is done just to avoid speaking of GuixSD as a separate entity :) > Creation, modification, and > upgrade are atomic and roll-back is instantaneous, so Guix users and > sysadmins are never stuck with a broken user environment or system. =E2=80=9Cinstantaneous=E2=80=9D is not true for GuixSD where a reboot is re= quired. > Guix implements a functional specification of package, user, and system > configurations using the Scheme language. Guix complies with the FSF > Four Essential Freedoms and Free System Distribution Guidelines and > provides easy and immediate access to the exact source being run. > By > default, Guix uses pre-built package substitutes from the Guix build > farm and mirrors but users may build any package, or a complete system, > from package developer sources. I don=E2=80=99t think this feels at home in an introduction. It doesn=E2= =80=99t seem like much of a feature; in my opinion this is an implementation detail. > Guix is available on multiple run-time platforms including bare metal > (GuixSD), Virtual Machines (QEMU image), and any GNU/Linux distro (Guix > Binary). I don=E2=80=99t know about this. I still feel that GuixSD (be it on bare m= etal or on virtual machines) is a different beast; different enough to deserve separate intros, each with more detail than one could achieve by glossing over the differences. > SALES MESSAGE: > > Introducing Guix - the first software environment manager that solves > the problems of both sysadmins and users of GNU/Linux: > > - sysadmin problems: > > - Because I have to modify the system to meet user needs and these are > risky, I have to prototype every change on a test system > > - because system changes takes time, I can't keep up with user software > requests and users are unhappy > > - Users request conflicting packages, so I can't make everyone happy > > - user problems: > > - I need software that sysops won't or hasn't provided > > - sysops changes stuff and my environment breaks > > - I need software that sysops can't provide because it conflicts with > other user requirements I=E2=80=99m not a fan of sales messages and that kind of language (=E2=80=9Cintroducing=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cthe first foo to do bar=E2=80=9D, = etc); I also don=E2=80=99t like that these are all worded negatively, which is something we should avoid. I agree that we can speak of Guix in a little wider terms (e.g. =E2=80=9Csoftware environment manager=E2=80=9D instead of just =E2=80= =9Cpackage manager=E2=80=9D), but I feel even more strongly that trying to smoothen over the differences between Guix and GuixSD would not be a good idea. I do agree, though, that we could describe GuixSD as a special case of other Guix features: it=E2=80=99s a bare-metal deployment of these virtual system= s that =E2=80=9Cguix system=E2=80=9D can produce. I still think that moving the introduction and the screenshots of GuixSD to a sub-page would be an improvement, as it reduces confusion and keeps the focus on the features of Guix (which also include =E2=80=9Cguix system= =E2=80=9D, which has GuixSD as a special case). -- Ricardo GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC https://elephly.net