From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id qDB6L6nIYmCz4QAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:43:53 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id 0P1SKqnIYmBHFgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 06:43:53 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48EEC206AA for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:43:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:47472 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lR86S-0005vP-Go for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 02:43:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55430) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lR860-0005vC-Fm for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 02:43:24 -0400 Received: from world.peace.net ([64.112.178.59]:37302) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lR85y-00028b-BL for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 02:43:24 -0400 Received: from mhw by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lR85v-0004FX-I8; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 02:43:19 -0400 From: Mark H Weaver To: =?utf-8?Q?L=C3=A9o?= Le Bouter , Christopher Baines Subject: Re: GNOME 40 work should be done on Savannah (was: Re: GNOME 40) In-Reply-To: <35efe3776747ef36d6eec350843428fa0abf22fd.camel@zaclys.net> References: <0323e477b9226759445ad7c58bad134fcff4bc40.camel@zaclys.net> <878s67dmwn.fsf@netris.org> <878s669zqf.fsf@cbaines.net> <87eefx36ni.fsf@netris.org> <35efe3776747ef36d6eec350843428fa0abf22fd.camel@zaclys.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 02:41:38 -0400 Message-ID: <87blb12ldu.fsf@netris.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.112.178.59; envelope-from=mhw@netris.org; helo=world.peace.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617086633; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=1GfznqprMovc/oI2IeoGK/gaJM5ET/ltWj8AHwll4AM=; b=oi/kM7CGinPVGw4GMR8uE+vIl+pLeZOoAWXayiYDIIbagmS0f5wS505wGzaMONNGD9fk1e KgUf0ddBKA4ByNtSjZDcABL7h8+UIo8U1HoLFv5v/nGJbU9oFzwK+2jrFgqxNyf/qUxam8 /vg854NVBSyJsq5bn/g7UK86VrzKTgSSXtENObKQb8DW/pZ1BeDDXty/fiWhCPFxaPp3At +DmEWOo/a6BTHA4uVbR8TewsFc9sVMlnnRzcIs9u38s/5YK+BuiPRcwTg9y6xzb4+Q+cQh woMyPUMYePuE8ccqBaZ7SxL2jb3QVc5dTrGMEYJ1j0ai2zSwWFryFY92n7jAww== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617086633; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=IyOTpjAeobj205aYnshuqYeBx8jsNI69wBFMzoNv+KqRKpXBjXQMn7czT/6Apm70N6SE3n JsF4Mec+X4Ygh6q3Vx6VE42vXJ3nn7R5N/6bM4lB7eGW5WfCqI5KYLh2upY1u/9A+Zznnb jPXgH7c/kNhC17EYrbU8VAHOvdeg3ySkO20G95ABsXqqQDNyK2An97AKVotF9tgt/yzCRi siZ2Fq47ALvCoL5we9HDzgjOKqESG4cbgqPe7+7AjKi21iGac5d4uCiaAkSZBZU+OVJfjy 9KjqqVAbaaZRRAGIqOrpr+OvRhA8kzaLCpiQWrVj8MlTxb864t4d1GMQVqBVpg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.42 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 48EEC206AA X-Spam-Score: -2.42 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 02l5nZb3MsFI Hi L=C3=A9o, L=C3=A9o Le Bouter writes: > The people that work on it now are Raghav and me, and Raghav does not > have commit access yet, so that's the only way we can work and > cooperate now. We don't have a choice. Sorry, but that's simply false. You _do_ have a choice. You can do what we've been doing in the Guix community for years: as a committer, _you_ can commit the work of non-committers on their behalf. If not you, then any of the other ~64 Guix committers can do so. Needless to say, before committing, you must review the proposed patches, for the sake of your reputation. The fact that you must do this is a *feature*, not a bug. > I don't feel like people should be barred to contribute to that GNOME > 40 upgrade because they arent an approved committer. That doesnt feel > inclusive to me. No one is "barred" from contributing. Raghav and many others without commit access have been successfully contributing to Guix for years. I understand that it's inconvenient. Naturally, you would like to eliminate that inconvenience. The thing is, the work of non-committers *must* be reviewed at some point, anyway. Moreover, a committer must take responsibility by digitally signing it. To eliminate either of these steps would put us at risk. There's no guarantee that the work of Guix committers will be reviewed by anyone else, because no one else's reputation is on the line. Some of us try to keep an eye on things, but I would not bet on that oversight being comprehensive. I'm certainly not doing it comprehensively. With this in mind, I think that we *should* have a high standard for committers. The security of our systems, as well as Guix's reputation as a project, depends upon the good judgment of _every_ Guix committer. Observe what can happen with projects that are too lax: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/buffer-overruns-license-violation= s-and-bad-code-freebsd-13s-close-call/ > Why would it not get adequate oversight? It's just an easier way to > collaborate on patches, but the patchset would be sent over to guix- > patches before getting merged to master or else. Upgrading GNOME is not trivial. It will be a large patch set. A large patch set presented to guix-patches when the branch is ready to merge is far less likely to get careful review than if the review is done a few commits at a time. That's because, at any given time, it's easier to find Guix developers with a few minutes available to carefully review a small handful of commits, than to find developers prepared to review a non-trivial branch merge. If they're reviewed at all, reviews of larger code drops are more likely to be superficial. * * * In summary: it seems to me that working in an external repository with a larger set of committers would not actually save time, because it would merely postpone the required review work until the end of the process when the branch is ready to be merged into Savannah. Moreover, it would likely reduce the quality of that review work. Does that make sense? Regards, Mark