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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, zimoun Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617289110; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=GkM2Y0hQbFYBNclT6QOk3ndb1bYr4sb1vKDkgPVEhck=; b=bKOqtK2ZWJn8mZlim/6ndfyOBGqrn462wJfItWJa60SFKjI4Xk7fnurV1Hv1rAoqXYWdHg Y4a3nVWAt6nkQavXNuDe5F1AZ20pEY0brbLZxij3lZx/dvjn49I3ejz9XazgSp/yD8Bkoi VnhVDwFsgUbCwtUAK+6Xjfbk5lBZjgVgkwCr3euS5VVv7Cu3HOghUwY2tn4X3NjbM+70RB m3zvE3We3hS4EQoRvlhaUz0GJwsYAMWbdmaMiMLqPrV9xZVufHmV2N0MeHuz1aFJRHTVl1 0s+5iJIxk68IyPQla3WrYt9q9hjf/2fPsSWsvE6myYKw6L2AX2I0NjQOEH6DyQ== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617289110; a=rsa-sha256; cv=fail; b=kFxO47R3B/bzH7LFVypQK5JY/+LhHmtKk0rWB8TQd91IHCIrqcld/rZNsctrM8F48wQOaT /XYduFSuUQGGJE74hE0g0OTYdJeCzDIVE8NClJYKH3TJU6APfVclHXiRJYnayKQkReCS/u rBIx7tVQrEsl1MC2JQE8YgHfCvcDlagl0qxCFfPUT0s6sSCoQqdX85GmMV8zykJ6E4/7df 7HNeOB37GkLyStIuYvCqzI+zIEMyqG4nIPCC0yif5UvAwokSMfa4poQ4cRAKZuww1RmT0d D6GVqyLJPXulIXEKuXCmxEisKImkSAOAaLuQnsF3k1vhgfzI67s20QcFEqLCIQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=elephly.net header.s=zoho header.b=DrGdxKWH; arc=reject ("signature check failed: fail, {[1] = sig:zohomail.com:reject}"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.57 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=elephly.net header.s=zoho header.b=DrGdxKWH; arc=reject ("signature check failed: fail, {[1] = sig:zohomail.com:reject}"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 930F71EC03 X-Spam-Score: 0.57 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: MvX/nyUZc2Xf Hi L=C3=A9o, > Hello Ludo, > > On Wed, 2021-03-31 at 23:29 +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> It=E2=80=99s unacceptable to call someone =E2=80=9Cobsessed=E2=80=9D jus= t because you >> disagree >> and calling Simon=E2=80=99s comments =E2=80=9Charassment=E2=80=9D is equ= ally inappropriate. > > I really do feel harassed by their comments, it's not just because I > disagree, it's that I feel they have been following me around in > several of my contributions repeating the same issues, I have heard > their criticism and I do disagree but I don't feel like bringing it up > over and over and over following me around is a great thing to do at > all! I don=E2=80=99t doubt it feels this way for you, but I seriously doubt Simon follows you around and responds to your emails to cause a stink. Since a couple of months Simon has been doing invaluable work to tie up loose ends in bug reports and mailing list discussions; thanks to this tireless work many stalled projects have been able to move forward. Applying the same strategy to finding consensus and establishing the lack of consensus in fresh discussions is very valuable, in my opinion. You started quite a few discussions with lots of recommendations and some controversial points; I think it is obvious that this leads to a discussion of these points, including the unavoidable discussion of misunderstandings (which can be pretty frustrating for all involved). For what it=E2=80=99s worth, I agree with the points made by Leo Famulari, Ludovic, and Simon. I don=E2=80=99t think we should have a security-updates branch, because the role of that branch is effectively taken by staging. >> We=E2=80=99re all passionate about the project, and each one of us looks= at >> it >> from a different angle. >>=20 >> You=E2=80=99re new to the project. I think we=E2=80=99re all glad you j= oined; that >> has >> already boosted security work and the POWER9 port. But we also have >> expectations: that you follow written rules (the code of conduct, the >> =E2=80=9CCommit Access=E2=80=9D section of the manual), and the unwritte= n rule that, >> as >> a newcomer, you would humbly listen to suggestions made by more >> experienced contributors. > > I try to listen, and I think I have listened to criticism from many > different people. I think we've reached a point where I could not > listen anymore from Zimoun because I felt we were going in circles. That=E2=80=99s fine. We have no deadlines, so stepping back from what feels like a heated discussion for a while and revisiting the points later comes at very little cost. Obviously, you don=E2=80=99t *have* to accept other people=E2=80=99s critic= ism. But we collectively aim to act in a collegial fashion, finding consensus before forging ahead with changes to processes. I have not been convinced by your arguments and your appeals in this discussion. I can=E2=80=99t speak = for others, but I would consider it very unwise to ignore the lack of consensus and just start a new branch when that isn=E2=80=99t what the collective of long-term contributors agrees to do.=20 If that=E2=80=99s not what you=E2=80=99re planning to do then my comments c= arry no weight. I do want to stress, though, that hurry is usually misplaced in the decision-making process of this project. There are only few exceptions to this and none warrant precipitating a falling-out. --=20 Ricardo