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a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=6h5RBKRfi9SsOhuastEeQNDJUiML4nQMdaphg/ZVjtU=; b=dqsBU2AIDQlfoYGhmX36 pqy6ZA8mKMWZH5jWSAcxcM8bX4KlcD4acor4jw1bqTdNT8xVUeBOAzAqFQmwzMrZbWtyp3c1NZQgh JRAoWjAgb0MbnbQEgi4zWdieN8flxEE60z49mX7LvvcO/YRRdjQwPyKCmGMUDcd2bKlbFY+pY0QMX QQ3GGx+3WU8IKWUWLjtZSL8nkYOXFkjEwCB75zhLrNnvO5neBRESVGcnMPWHKxuuA9FPaG3Rt3csV hLtn7ce8/8vyWMusDcdmn5pMT2AmWRwaCrbbs7xmvud57xjDau9u0ti64U0TSEZjvUKdqrppHywCq 2j7JlP3+qX8SnA==; Received: from [193.50.110.253] (helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pagRW-0004j5-Gg; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:22:10 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Maxim Cournoyer Cc: Simon Tournier , Andreas Enge , =?utf-8?B?5a6L5paH5q2m?= , Christopher Baines , guix-devel@gnu.org, 61894@debbugs.gnu.org, guix-maintainers@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#61894: [PATCH RFC] Team approval for patches References: <878rgga1qv.fsf@inria.fr> <871qm8wf8e.fsf@cbaines.net> <87r0u86qgo.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y1o9mina.fsf_-_@envs.net> <861qm0da4y.fsf@gmail.com> <87sfegwh28.fsf@gmail.com> <878rg7uqb4.fsf@gmail.com> <86lek6ntpb.fsf@gmail.com> <874jqtte7c.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: =?utf-8?Q?D=C3=A9cadi?= 20 =?utf-8?Q?Vent=C3=B4se?= an 231 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution=2C?= jour du Cordeau X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:22:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <874jqtte7c.fsf@gmail.com> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Thu, 09 Mar 2023 23:36:39 -0500") Message-ID: <87bkl0frnk.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3A7B9390FB X-Spam-Score: -10.22 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -10.22 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-TUID: +PsKQlJYDwcw Hello Maxim and all! Maxim Cournoyer skribis: >> With the proposed policy, members of a team would also have to review >> and approve each other=E2=80=99s work. Formal approval means getting an >> explicit =E2=80=9CLGTM=E2=80=9D (or similar) from at least one other tea= m member. > > In other words, to give teams the power to gate the changes touching > their scope. That's reasonable, if we have functional teams. I'd argue > we aren't there yet. I kinda agree; bootstrapping issue then? I hope the maintainer team can help make teams =E2=80=9Cmore functional=E2= =80=9D, whatever that teams. It=E2=80=99s really what maintainership is about in G= uix; it=E2=80=99s not about writing code. > And also: >> I think it avoids the unavoidable misunderstandings that can arise in >> a growing group and help pacify day-to-day collaboration. > > Again, "pacify" irks me a bit in this sentence, given I consider > collaboration has and continues to be cordial in our community, unless > I've been living under a rock. =E2=80=9CPacify=E2=80=9D in the sense that, by being explicit, we avoid misunderstandings that could turn into unpleasant experiences. Like you I=E2=80=99m glad collaboration is nice and friendly; yet, over the= past few months I=E2=80=99ve experienced misunderstandings that seemingly broke = the consensus-based process that has always prevailed. In a way, that=E2=80=99s probably bound to happen as the group grows, and I think that=E2=80=99s why we must be explicit about what the process is and = about whether one is expressing consent or dissent. With so many things happening in Guix (yay!), it=E2=80=99s also easy to ove= rlook a change and realize when it=E2=80=99s too late. By having a rule that at = least one other person on the team must approve (consent to) a change, we reduce that risk. Being on a team, then, is a way to express interest on a topic and to be =E2=80=9Cin the loop=E2=80=9D. It is not about asserting power or building= a hierarchy; it=E2=80=99s about formalizing existing relations and processes. I hope this clarifies my position! Ludo=E2=80=99.