From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) Subject: Re: Emacs-Guix released outside from Guix Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 11:32:46 +0100 Message-ID: <878trdplwx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20161215144849.2990-1-alezost@gmail.com> <871sx9atdh.fsf@gnu.org> <87inqjvufm.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59500) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cIYly-00038F-Bb for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 05:32:55 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cIYlv-00021V-8B for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 05:32:54 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87inqjvufm.fsf@gmail.com> (Alex Kost's message of "Sat, 17 Dec 2016 11:19:57 +0300") List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Alex Kost Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Hi Alex, Alex Kost skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s (2016-12-15 18:39 +0100) wrote: > >> Hi Alex! >> >> Alex Kost skribis: >> >>> Hello, I've been working on Emacs interface outside from the Guix repo >>> for some time, I mean I'm not going to maintain it inside Guix, sorry := -( >>> >>> The main reason, is, well, inconvenience for me: I don't like to bother >>> people with patches, etc. I tried to explain it at >>> . >> >> As someone who=E2=80=99s always trusted you to do the right thing, I=E2= =80=99m of course >> disappointed that we Guix folks didn=E2=80=99t get notified nor consulte= d before >> the fact. I would also have loved a reply to my message back then=C2=B9. >> That=E2=80=99s your choice though. >> >> =C2=B9 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2016-07/msg01110.ht= ml > > I'm sorry for not answering, I thought I was clear at the time. I thought I was clear too, that message called for your feedback (and this one does too!). Dialog is a two-way street. > I always feel uncomfortable to send patches or to push commits to the > Guix repo. I can't explain it properly, it's just painful all the > time; but more importantly, it slowed down the development, as I often > decided not to do small changes. Contrary, I made more commits to the > Emacs-Guix source tree in the past month, than to the Guix repo during > the whole year. I have the same questions as John: what is it that made you feel uncomfortable? I stated clearly multiple times that you are effectively =E2=80=9Csudoer=E2=80=9D on this code. Let=E2=80=99s reflect on this for all the future Alexes that come around. = If you are in my position, what do you do to make it so that the next Alex feels comfortable and happy with this workflow? What does it take to avoid an =E2=80=9CAlexit=E2=80=9D? :-) That=E2=80=99s an honest question: I cannot state what I did wrong, but I= =E2=80=99d like to learn so it doesn=E2=80=99t happen again. >> This change will prevent joint feature development (updating >> completions, =E2=80=98emacs-build-system=E2=80=99 and how it interacts w= ith the Emacs >> UI, M-x guix, cross-cutting changes to the UI, and so on). This isn=E2= =80=99t >> good news for users. >> >> Breakage will occasionally occur as the Guix APIs change, which will >> make us all a bit sad. What are your thoughts? > > Well, I was going to make a release and to update the 'emacs-guix' > package after fixing such a breakage. Actually this way doesn't look > worse for me: when breakages happened in the past, the only way to fix > it was to update 'guix-devel' package. That will be even harder with separate projects. What about joint feature development (see above)? >>> So I'd like to add 'emacs-guix' package (the current patchset) and to >>> remove it from the Guix source tree, if you don't mind. >> >> I think =E2=80=9Cif you don=E2=80=99t mind=E2=80=9D is misplaced. > > No, it's not misplaced; not sure what you mean. Saying =E2=80=9Cif you don=E2=80=99t mind=E2=80=9D for a decision that is e= ffectively imposed on others without discussion is harsh, to put it mildly. >> I=E2=80=99ll let you take care of the actual removal, along with update = to the >> Texinfo cross-references and doc/htmlxref.cnf (assuming the manual will >> be available on-line.) > > Ahem, it will not, at least not soon. > >> I think it would help users to keep >> cross-references between the two manuals. > > Emacs-Guix manual has many links to the Guix manual, but I think a > single mention of Emacs-Guix in the Guix manual will be enough. I have > not looked at updating cross-references in the Guix manual yet, though. Sadness. I think users won=E2=80=99t be happier. :-/ Pardon me for being grumpy, I=E2=80=99m just feeling sad and frustrated. Ludo=E2=80=99.