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[95.29.46.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d15sm1438137lfq.146.2021.10.18.09.44.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 18 Oct 2021 09:44:21 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_A=2E_Gomes?= To: Jan Nieuwenhuizen Subject: Re: EXWM References: <87sfxgeu69.fsf@gmail.com> <87o87zdbpd.fsf@systemreboot.net> <87wnme91q0.fsf@gmail.com> <87k0idq7mc.fsf@systemreboot.net> <87pms2529l.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 19:44:09 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87pms2529l.fsf@gnu.org> (Jan Nieuwenhuizen's message of "Mon, 18 Oct 2021 07:29:42 +0200") Message-ID: <878ryqe10m.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::22b; envelope-from=andremegafone@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x22b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1634575485; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=PelhrDambnjZaWuXAUpNNZHH9K0DbPPBH/kDQbtGkWI=; b=d8H5N2T/f0q1ucQW6SBuoNxROgEuARXBp+HFzWyBQoJfPdl4QOT5wZajM9YqtKyzwDk5Fg pj9S1igS2LAiObxzEuBzuwNdDii8vbrv04N7PXb/MgvAYcekNAVEXp12W2zis9NkcyWDEy GyxZSxgAsP4gt1nRgMDvR1DTU2GLEkQDKc5DxWTOEhlgr6f4Zy2BSg7XnFPLCLa8fvG+Lx DnEcmyTS++Tj0Br8WlHNEskzp0aPfA1HWXINGW3813TJrl0pDElcS/5LGzPxk/IJjgfYTT ZWzgWDhTEuw/BpKwq6ikRQdtDHFMD7iaZXysXtPxOXkiWjVBgAUQNiJ2W4E/KQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1634575485; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=jloPpo79wDPDuoCpvwlmZELzUpa8f3ZGNOlRG5KY9RfqrokB1xPrIARvd/P/+FCEVVbbNd GJD/os/r7Kf00c5Cf66EhLcuIaQrKdcf567YmyQOaQGVtmP3d8KtjCxwrsMYLqg5EWJotD khazVAC0wUn5EgPgtjsng35n26ngshbxdug9S4VjrkAnnl34wCGCAb7YUi/eRjZ60YT62L fhHm1CrjhcY3SAz1JMknA91MlujCMmer8MPRvpDC3qUQkQB3KKcd/rPtW6ytQNAyZKRTzw ErzSjSGEL1/ynNl4YsgwfP1WOJOFG5E7ONut15KdK0fE1Ur9IkCPvydsFbbljQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=YGB4+f3m; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.02 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=YGB4+f3m; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: BF9D3DA4E X-Spam-Score: -1.02 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: XezAZO1CBHQV Jan Nieuwenhuizen writes: > Arun Isaac writes: > > Hello, > >>> My suggestion is simple: remove the added layer of complexity introduced >>> by the .exwm file; don't force a default Exwm config on the user. >> >> I think I agree with you now. I checked, and exwm indeed does not run >> when emacs is opened in the console even though my exwm config is >> defined in my ~/.emacs. > > Interesting. So the extra, unneccesary initialization code does not > hurt there. > > I just tried adding my ~/.exwm into my init.el and running a nested > emacs and now I get a GUI dialog: > > Replace existing window manager? Y/N > > Not great! Not very suprisingly, the extra unnecessary initialization > /does/ hurt here. Isn't exwm doing precisely what it's supposed to do? Isn't it fair that the newly spawned (nested) Emacs has the right to take control over the "older" Emacs? It does so in a very polite way, by asking what should be done. If you disagree with the default behaviour, you can change the value of the variable exwm-replace. >> So, I see no reason to continue having ~/.exwm. If no one else has any >> objections, please do send a patch fixing this. > > I would very much like for this nested emacs issue to be addressed > first. > > I just don't really see the point in mixing two bits of code that are > meant to run in different scenarios, and then disabling one of them. I don't see how it could possibly qualify as an issue, and what those "different scenarios" are. There's one and only one scenario. The user launches emacs. Emacs reads the user's init file, and carries out the instructions. The confusion arises from thinking about Exwm as a "session", with a .desktop file associated with it. But that's a special case of something more general and simple. Exwm is an Emacs extension, requiring a graphical X session. After all, it manages X windows "=C3=A0 la Emacs". If you try to start Exwm from the console, it will handle it. If you start Exwm from DEs or WMs (GNOME, i3, whatever), it will handle it (on Guix, that requires running xhost). Yes, this is a good middle ground for "beginners" that aren't ready to fully convert themselves to the Light. If you start Exwm from Exwm itself, it will handle it as well. The so-called "emacs-exwm" session is nothing but a convenience to handle a common scenario. If Exwm handles X windows, then it makes sense to start a graphical session and IMMEDIATELY start Emacs so that Exwm kicks in. What happens if Exwm doesn't kick in, btw? You get a bunch of X windows floating around, and you won't be able to handle them with ease. Makes sense. What should the "emacs-exwm" session do, then? With some simplifications, nothing but this: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- dbus-launch --exit-with-session emacs -mm --debug-init --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Yes, there shouldn't even be any "exwm" logic in it. The user knows better. Let the user's init file be in charge.=20 I did my best to show my point of view, and I won't press on it anymore. The decision is on the community's side. The patch the trivial. Acceptance isn't. -- Andr=C3=A9 A. Gomes "Free Thought, Free World"