From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id kE2dJR2ug2PbEAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 19:36:13 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id OJGiJR2ug2MkeQAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 19:36:13 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 372482B2CB for ; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 19:36:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ozMV4-0004bs-K9; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 13:35:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ozMV2-0004bg-H5 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 13:35:32 -0500 Received: from cascadia.aikidev.net ([173.255.214.101]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ozMV0-0002ik-9w for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 13:35:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20]) (Authenticated sender: vagrant@cascadia.debian.net) by cascadia.aikidev.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 646601AB8F; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 10:35:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=debian.org; s=1.vagrant.user; t=1669574119; bh=b5aQ6EO8r6HOVz4KHFMwWYSDssb5KAxZA0u5ydI0GU8=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=ZjyJ5tLA+vwmrCvopEiwCLl/+dBIXxhCv9u1U/LYRCQ58MfQ7bbutyah4bB9lPKEM sVpvhmJICFPM2ZXH+ffKm9cpsQDRdCyI43zKXKBl82v8CWe8MFukWpCHhVUlCowupF 8MnA2k0evpWzEiMgcDmzsndDzpPnWZQqfIt3du8a8sM9sx3W2i7g26TqIYkUanqY/9 YD16CYHNy9B+l5JKMpUd6HTaQ12cG6lfxkM5trDfNW/tl11FvvtiB6jYrDfq9NI94x grEsp+nfaIJp+CM2CcEBUGl1zLJ7dQbOjzcq3nHcjHIdnzhdFwwlb486CZZdq00sZ3 uNfUeU750zEvg== From: Vagrant Cascadian To: Simon Josefsson , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: advanced? In-Reply-To: <875yf1qtfq.fsf@latte> References: <875yf1qtfq.fsf@latte> Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2022 10:35:13 -0800 Message-ID: <878rjw5jq6.fsf@contorta> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: none client-ip=173.255.214.101; envelope-from=vagrant@debian.org; helo=cascadia.aikidev.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1669574173; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=tT0ANEMiLxKPje6Fr2kIHccpvveZ3iAhbH9GH5YQCsc=; b=ef7SWA5KBtODEzphaV3jA1uCy/3x7lswELHzqOm4az9fbmwLiDXwj3TI1qO0D0gQArTwmN fCUS4ISUJormCtJsRHM4IbdLDs6nrDIyJyXg5I0qdd02btUdshCPehuXKQtQhuZwc5Mbvg eISYozOzuYykcHk6EAfxdldua+BYpAthGviLGPhYL18k7haUWB5MogJ5HJ5WRfsor2DL4e pJV21PobvC+mpt3k6fPdrhh9EVwtY0xLP4GO0xgyxkgJD4ukXM4VVv/Q+m1pK0xpucDKWE 8KEl5FEhlz4maRywwgEpXTKZvCTVFYuiXJlKLrrdhaB6TvH9BDKPSSzztZKQvw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1669574173; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=PIV+kq6PIb3YiMHScJwJ0ViSgMLOwj40JPIrZ16nhuelChYh2/BIUrvKyQN8Kyk5oCk0wk wpUTGyODqqF1SxGsfYfzczp+JIWBL72gH4P55MsGl/SaHa8+IiCJgnZE8RondOgFXrM4HE pijojg/UgybsoVrAd6bUl+IUf7vE5LczoHLs0prUHLtJPR7lVfsv3D6Ew7YAun9CMWl6GB Q6DvogKLu21FIZzVrvvQASlffOjuoTj9I8ZO89p4dbl8vowY3lNE0/p4xM2Vv2dPQD9sex cx99JXaY31LTbCuXLeT2egqIyTBJAbtrGkvEKYHWBBZfVX3k+L6RvSK6pl7SyQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=debian.org header.s=1.vagrant.user header.b=ZjyJ5tLA; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.86 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=debian.org header.s=1.vagrant.user header.b=ZjyJ5tLA; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 372482B2CB X-Spam-Score: -8.86 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: XJdtgdl7G7br --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2022-11-26, Simon Josefsson via "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU Sys= tem distribution." wrote: > I find use of the term 'advanced' wrt Guix confusing and even mildly > excluding, even though it is wide-spread. What is advanced about Guix? > Can I use it even if I'm not an advanced user? What do others think? > Is there some historical background for this description of Guix? Thanks for bringing this up! It does seem consistent with the guix manual section on package synopsis and descriptions: https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/devel/en/guix.html#Synopses-and-Descriptio= ns Please avoid marketing phrases such as =E2=80=9Cworld-leading=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cindustrial-strength=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Cnext-generation=E2=80= =9D, and avoid superlatives like =E2=80=9Cthe most advanced=E2=80=9D=E2=80=94they are not helpful to = users looking for a package and may even sound suspicious. Instead, try to be factual, mentioning use cases and features. I'm just not sure what stating "advanced" up-front really adds or improves a brief statement about what guix is... Reading through your patch, it just seems like an extra word thrown in hoping for the positive connotations and possibly dragging in some negative ones (e.g. elitist, not for everybody). It also makes me wonder if "advanced" will stand the test of time. Someday Guix-style systems might just be status quo, and thus no longer advanced. Guix of course will likely evolve over time... maybe it will still hold qualities worthy of being called "advanced", maybe not. Reminds me of when I used to work at a computer re-use and recycling organization, and we would routingly get computers with stickers on them proclaiming "Blazing fast 400MHz processor" and the likes. Marketing phrases quickly loose context. > If we want to use the term, I think it would be better to rephrase > things as 'Guix supports advanced features such as X, Y and Z' if we > really want to drive home that we are advanced. This works for me... describe *why* it is advanced rather than just proclaiming it. live well, vagrant --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRlgHNhO/zFx+LkXUXcUY/If5cWqgUCY4Ot4QAKCRDcUY/If5cW qslJAQDSqhZOyoDhaq74cc8HzpQn8hMoCp7TDdPcrzSsGJiZ8QD9Hw9R0DsAY8yV BRS7LUoSZ0g/LSQOiKrwFvCXJttSCgg= =Tdvx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--