* GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM @ 2015-12-16 11:29 Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-16 13:02 ` Torbjörn Granlund 2015-12-18 23:14 ` GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM Ludovic Courtès 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-16 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gmp-bugs; +Cc: Guix-devel Hello! When GMP 6.1.0 is built with --host=none-unknown-linux-gnueabihf on ARMv7 (the way GCC configures its in-tree GMP, as of GCC 4.9.3), ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ is missing from the resulting libgmp.a. --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ nm /gnu/store/v6ipb4br8h6sy9zc82aj464cjcgnv7gl-gmp-6.1.0/lib/libgmp.a |grep __gmpn_invert_limb nm: mp_clz_tab.o: no symbols U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb 00000000 T __gmpn_invert_limb nm: repl-vsnprintf.o: no symbols --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- This seems to be expected, but then it looks as though <gmp-impl.h> was erroneously referring to it, leading to undefined references, as reported at <https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=67728>. Ideas? Thanks, Ludo’. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM 2015-12-16 11:29 GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-16 13:02 ` Torbjörn Granlund 2015-12-16 22:39 ` Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-18 23:14 ` GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM Ludovic Courtès 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Torbjörn Granlund @ 2015-12-16 13:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: Guix-devel, gmp-bugs ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: When GMP 6.1.0 is built with --host=none-unknown-linux-gnueabihf on ARMv7 (the way GCC configures its in-tree GMP, as of GCC 4.9.3), ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ is missing from the resulting libgmp.a. --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ nm /gnu/store/v6ipb4br8h6sy9zc82aj464cjcgnv7gl-gmp-6.1.0/lib/libgmp.a |grep __gmpn_invert_limb nm: mp_clz_tab.o: no symbols U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb U __gmpn_invert_limb 00000000 T __gmpn_invert_limb nm: repl-vsnprintf.o: no symbols --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- This seems to be expected, but then it looks as though <gmp-impl.h> was erroneously referring to it, leading to undefined references, as reported at <https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=67728>. I've tried to reproduce this on two different ARM systems, and failed. I cannot reproduce any link errors, nor can I find the reference or definitions of the symbol __gmpn_invert_limb. It also puzzles me that you would get link errors given that __gmpn_invert_limb is defined in your libgmp.a. Note also that using "none" as CPU is deprecated and outputs a warning. Many strange things indeed. -- Torbjörn Please encrypt, key id 0xC8601622 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM 2015-12-16 13:02 ` Torbjörn Granlund @ 2015-12-16 22:39 ` Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-17 1:07 ` Torbjörn Granlund 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-16 22:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Torbjörn Granlund; +Cc: Guix-devel, gmp-bugs tg@gmplib.org (Torbjörn Granlund) skribis: > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: > > When GMP 6.1.0 is built with --host=none-unknown-linux-gnueabihf on > ARMv7 (the way GCC configures its in-tree GMP, as of GCC 4.9.3), > ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ is missing from the resulting libgmp.a. [...] > This seems to be expected, but then it looks as though <gmp-impl.h> was > erroneously referring to it, leading to undefined references, as > reported at <https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=67728>. > > I've tried to reproduce this on two different ARM systems, and failed. > > I cannot reproduce any link errors, nor can I find the reference or > definitions of the symbol __gmpn_invert_limb. The undefined references come up when linking for instance GCC against GMP: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/./gmp/.libs/libgmp.a(powm_ui.o): In function `__gmpz_powm_ui': /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/gmp/mpz/../../../gcc-4.9.3/gmp/mpz/powm_ui.c:162: undefined reference to `__gmpn_invert_limb' /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/./gmp/.libs/libgmp.a(divrem_1.o): In function `__gmpn_divrem_1': /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/gmp/mpn/divrem_1.c:149: undefined reference to `__gmpn_invert_limb' /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/gmp/mpn/divrem_1.c:228: undefined reference to `__gmpn_invert_limb' /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/./gmp/.libs/libgmp.a(divrem_2.o): In function `__gmpn_divrem_2': /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/gmp/mpn/divrem_2.c:91: undefined reference to `__gmpn_invert_limb' /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/./gmp/.libs/libgmp.a(lt86-sqrtrem.o): In function `mpn_divappr_q': /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/gmp/mpn/sqrtrem.c:280: undefined reference to `__gmpn_invert_limb' /tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/./gmp/.libs/libgmp.a(div_q.o):/tmp/nix-build-gcc-cross-boot0-4.9.3.drv-0/build/gmp/mpn/div_q.c:251: more undefined references to `__gmpn_invert_limb' follow collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- See <http://hydra.gnu.org/build/865660/nixlog/1/raw> for a complete log. > It also puzzles me that you would get link errors given that > __gmpn_invert_limb is defined in your libgmp.a. Sorry, I pasted the “wrong” one. Here’s what I have for a no-asm build: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ nm /gnu/store/924bg8ws2fkk4z0bifzkqg5d57pgc4w1-gmp-6.1.0/lib/libgmp.a|grep invert_limb 00000000 R __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table nm: repl-vsnprintf.o: no symbols --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > Note also that using "none" as CPU is deprecated and outputs a warning. I know, but this is what GCC uses (which makes sense, because it also supports older versions of GMP.) I hope this clarifies things. Thanks, Ludo’. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM 2015-12-16 22:39 ` Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-17 1:07 ` Torbjörn Granlund 2015-12-17 21:45 ` Christopher Allan Webber 2015-12-17 21:48 ` On being welcoming Ludovic Courtès 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Torbjörn Granlund @ 2015-12-17 1:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: Guix-devel, gmp-bugs ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: The undefined references come up when linking for instance GCC against GMP: .../build/./gmp/.libs/libgmp.a(powm_ui.o): In function `__gmpz_powm_ui': .../build/gmp/mpz/../../../gcc-4.9.3/gmp/mpz/powm_ui.c:162: undefined reference to `__gmpn_invert_limb' > It also puzzles me that you would get link errors given that > __gmpn_invert_limb is defined in your libgmp.a. Sorry, I pasted the “wrong” one. Here’s what I have for a no-asm build: Ok, but these are both __gmpn_invert_limb. $ nm /gnu/store/924bg8ws2fkk4z0bifzkqg5d57pgc4w1-gmp-6.1.0/lib/libgmp.a|grep invert_limb 00000000 R __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table U __gmp_binvert_limb_table OK, so here we have a different defined and referenced symbol. In what way is that relevant for the linker error above? I hope this clarifies things. Unfortunately, no. This is wasting everyone's time. Here is how: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gmp+reporting+bugs -- Torbjörn Please encrypt, key id 0xC8601622 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM 2015-12-17 1:07 ` Torbjörn Granlund @ 2015-12-17 21:45 ` Christopher Allan Webber 2015-12-17 21:48 ` On being welcoming Ludovic Courtès 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Christopher Allan Webber @ 2015-12-17 21:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Torbjörn Granlund; +Cc: Guix-devel, gmp-bugs Torbjörn Granlund writes: > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: > > I hope this clarifies things. > > Unfortunately, no. > > This is wasting everyone's time. Here is how: > > http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gmp+reporting+bugs This was a very rude response. Please don't respond like this on the list again. Guix has traditionally been a very friendly environment. I know many of us would like to keep it that way. Being dismissive of someone who is really trying to help is not nice, and disincentivizes them from helping you. You may be underestimating how much this kind of response can hurt someone. Let's please be nice to each other. - Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* On being welcoming 2015-12-17 1:07 ` Torbjörn Granlund 2015-12-17 21:45 ` Christopher Allan Webber @ 2015-12-17 21:48 ` Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-18 4:25 ` Mike Mohr ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-17 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Torbjörn Granlund; +Cc: Guix-devel, gmp-bugs Torbjörn, I dare say that technical expertise does not excuse disdain and contempt. This behavior is actively harmful to GMP and GNU. It also illustrates why codes of conduct are more than a cosmetic gimmick. I hope some of your peers will recognize the issue and step up to say that this is not acceptable. Happy hacking, Ludo’. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: On being welcoming 2015-12-17 21:48 ` On being welcoming Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-18 4:25 ` Mike Mohr 2015-12-18 15:51 ` Niels Möller ` (2 more replies) 2015-12-18 10:01 ` Niels Möller [not found] ` <nnlh8shy7c.fsf@armitage.lysator.liu.se> 2 siblings, 3 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Mike Mohr @ 2015-12-18 4:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: Guix-devel, Torbjörn Granlund, gmp-bugs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1939 bytes --] Based on my reading of the gmp-bugs mailing list over the past several years as well as the source code to various GMP releases, it is abundantly clear to me that Torbjörn is a highly talented individual and that the the GMP library would not be what it is today without him. However, I must concur with Ludovic in this matter. I have seen many examples of this type of conduct from him, both towards myself as well as others. I am a software engineer who works in Silicon Valley, and I cannot imagine working with someone who is frequently abrasive and disparaging. Such an individual would not last very long on my team. I am well aware of the stress involved with writing and maintaining a complex piece of software, as well as working with people who are less technically competent than I am, but that doesn't give me carte blanche to be hostile towards them. The tone of this community is determined in large part by its core developers. Niels Möller, for example, is consistently a great example of a positive, constructive team member. "As long as politics is the shadow cast on society by big business, the attenuation of the shadow will not change the substance." Dewey, J. (2008). *The later works of John Dewey, 1925 - 1953* (Volume 6, page 163). Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois University Press. On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote: > Torbjörn, > > I dare say that technical expertise does not excuse disdain and > contempt. This behavior is actively harmful to GMP and GNU. It also > illustrates why codes of conduct are more than a cosmetic gimmick. > > I hope some of your peers will recognize the issue and step up to say > that this is not acceptable. > > Happy hacking, > Ludo’. > _______________________________________________ > gmp-bugs mailing list > gmp-bugs@gmplib.org > https://gmplib.org/mailman/listinfo/gmp-bugs > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2905 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: On being welcoming 2015-12-18 4:25 ` Mike Mohr @ 2015-12-18 15:51 ` Niels Möller 2015-12-18 19:04 ` Torbjörn Granlund [not found] ` <nn1tajiwlk.fsf@armitage.lysator.liu.se> 2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Niels Möller @ 2015-12-18 15:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mike Mohr; +Cc: Guix-devel, Torbjörn Granlund, gmp-bugs Mike Mohr <akihana@gmail.com> writes: > I am a software engineer who works in Silicon Valley, and I cannot > imagine working with someone who is frequently abrasive and disparaging. > Such an individual would not last very long on my team. I think it's a grand mistake to compare the social workings of a spare time project with the relations within a professional development team. In silicon valley or elsewhere. I can only speak for myself, but I have pretty limited hacking time for my spare-time projects. And when I get some quality time when I'm at my best, and able to de some real hacking, I prefer doing the hacking. Which means that responding on mailing lists is more often than not done when I'm tired and likely to be more grumpy and less alert than usual. At my day job, conditions are quite different. Email to my collegues can usually get all care and attention they really need, and furthermore, I'm usually not supporting end users. (And discussions like these are also distractions from hacking, but sure, they are sometimes necessary too). Regards, /Niels -- Niels Möller. PGP-encrypted email is preferred. Keyid C0B98E26. Internet email is subject to wholesale government surveillance. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: On being welcoming 2015-12-18 4:25 ` Mike Mohr 2015-12-18 15:51 ` Niels Möller @ 2015-12-18 19:04 ` Torbjörn Granlund 2015-12-19 17:21 ` Mike Mohr [not found] ` <nn1tajiwlk.fsf@armitage.lysator.liu.se> 2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Torbjörn Granlund @ 2015-12-18 19:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: Guix-devel, gmp-discuss [To gmp-discuss readers: This started at gmp-bugs, first as a couple of reports about assumed GMP bugs, then with the subject used here.] ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: I think it is crucially important that you as a community recognize that this behavior is not acceptable. There’s nothing personal in doing that; it’s the behavior that we should condemn, not the person. Let's not exaggerate; sending sloppy bug reports might be considered as disrespectful, but I wouldn't go so far as calling "this behavior" "unacceptable". We're making a mistake if we assume malice when we read something we do not like. Mike Mohr <akihana@gmail.com> writes: I have seen many examples of this type of conduct from him, both towards myself as well as others. I am a software engineer who works in Silicon Valley, and I cannot imagine working with someone who is frequently abrasive and disparaging. Such an individual would not last very long on my team. We're all humans and I shall not exaggerate my critisism of sloppy bug reports, and I shall not sink to making an ad hominem response. [I'm going back to doing productive work now. I will not respond further to this thread, but I respect that others might want to continue, and I will read the contributions. Please use gmp-discuss, the gmp-bugs list is for bug reports.] -- Torbjörn Please encrypt, key id 0xC8601622 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: On being welcoming 2015-12-18 19:04 ` Torbjörn Granlund @ 2015-12-19 17:21 ` Mike Mohr 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Mike Mohr @ 2015-12-19 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Torbjörn Granlund; +Cc: Guix-devel, gmp-discuss [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2791 bytes --] (Replies inline.) On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Torbjörn Granlund <tg@gmplib.org> wrote: > [To gmp-discuss readers: This started at gmp-bugs, first as a couple of > reports about assumed GMP bugs, then with the subject used here.] > > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: > > I think it is crucially important that you as a community recognize that > this behavior is not acceptable. There’s nothing personal in doing > that; it’s the behavior that we should condemn, not the person. > > Let's not exaggerate; sending sloppy bug reports might be considered as > disrespectful, but I wouldn't go so far as calling "this behavior" > "unacceptable". We're making a mistake if we assume malice when we read > something we do not like. > To an outsider, who is perhaps unfamiliar with common software development practices, sloppy bug reports are easy mistakes to make. I doubt that the reporter had any ill intent. > > Mike Mohr <akihana@gmail.com> writes: > > I have seen many examples of this type of conduct from him, both > towards myself as well as others. I am a software engineer who > works in Silicon Valley, and I cannot imagine working with someone > who is frequently abrasive and disparaging. Such an individual > would not last very long on my team. > > We're all humans and I shall not exaggerate my critisism of sloppy bug > reports, and I shall not sink to making an ad hominem response. > > [I'm going back to doing productive work now. I will not respond further > to this thread, but I respect that others might want to continue, and I > will read the contributions. Please use gmp-discuss, the gmp-bugs list > is for bug reports.] > Torbjörn, I sincerely apologize if my initial response was interpreted as an ad hominem attack. It was certainly not intended as such. I actually spent a good amount of time weighing whether I should respond at all, followed by writing and rewriting several parts of the response. The initial paragraph, where I mention how valuable your contributions are to the GMP project, is missing from your inline response. The second paragraph seems harsher than I intended when read out of context. Your response to the original bug report was accurate; there was insufficient information in it. I am very aware of how frustrating incomplete bug reports can be, especially when working on a project for free in your spare time. My only intent was to share constructive criticism regarding how you responded to the reporter. > > -- > Torbjörn > Please encrypt, key id 0xC8601622 > _______________________________________________ > gmp-discuss mailing list > gmp-discuss@gmplib.org > https://gmplib.org/mailman/listinfo/gmp-discuss > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4089 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
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* Re: On being welcoming [not found] ` <nn1tajiwlk.fsf@armitage.lysator.liu.se> @ 2015-12-18 19:09 ` Christopher Allan Webber 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Christopher Allan Webber @ 2015-12-18 19:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Niels Möller; +Cc: Guix-devel, Mike Mohr, gmp-bugs, Torbjörn Granlund Niels Möller writes: > Mike Mohr <akihana@gmail.com> writes: > >> I am a software engineer who works in Silicon Valley, and I cannot >> imagine working with someone who is frequently abrasive and disparaging. >> Such an individual would not last very long on my team. > > I think it's a grand mistake to compare the social workings of a spare > time project with the relations within a professional development team. > In silicon valley or elsewhere. > > I can only speak for myself, but I have pretty limited hacking time for > my spare-time projects. And when I get some quality time when I'm at my > best, and able to de some real hacking, I prefer doing the hacking. > > Which means that responding on mailing lists is more often than not done > when I'm tired and likely to be more grumpy and less alert than usual. This is the last reply I will give on this thread, but I think that it's important. One of the issues is that emails which are rude or impolite can really drain participants. And of course, not just one person, but many people on a list can really be drained by reading these kinds of things. Some people might be afraid to join. I know when there's a really negative exchange, it takes it out of me. And that means it reduces my time I'm able to spend hacking and doing positive contributions that I would like to. So yes, let's all recognize our limited time and abilities to participate. One way we can be especially respectful and do a good job of showing such recognition is to be careful to be nice to each other on lists. The net effect of "spare time productivity" will likely be higher, because people will lose less energy to feeling drained by negative exchanges. So, in the long run, I do think it's worth that extra time to be thoughtful... not being rude does not take very much extra energy, and in the long run, leads to higher productive energy! - Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: On being welcoming 2015-12-17 21:48 ` On being welcoming Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-18 4:25 ` Mike Mohr @ 2015-12-18 10:01 ` Niels Möller [not found] ` <nnlh8shy7c.fsf@armitage.lysator.liu.se> 2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Niels Möller @ 2015-12-18 10:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: Guix-devel, Torbjörn Granlund, gmp-bugs ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: > I dare say that technical expertise does not excuse disdain and > contempt. This behavior is actively harmful to GMP and GNU. Some developers may be more polite than others, but you really need to follow the bug reporting instructions. If it is a bug in gmp, we'd like to fix it, of course. Or if it's a configuration error, we'd like to resolve that too, but then we still need to start with the proper bug reporting information. > It also illustrates why codes of conduct are more than a cosmetic > gimmick. I'd prefer not to not have the general code-of-conduct-debate on the gmp-bugs list. If you are disappointed about any individual's behaviour, I suspect it's usually more productive to start by trying to solve it off list (maybe you did? I wouldn't know of course). Mailing list discussons about personal issues tend to overheat too easily. (And it has taken me more than 30 minutes to formulate this reply, which I hope is sufficiently polite and respectful. I really hope that was time well spent). Best regards, /Niels -- Niels Möller. PGP-encrypted email is preferred. Keyid C0B98E26. Internet email is subject to wholesale government surveillance. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
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* Re: On being welcoming [not found] ` <nnlh8shy7c.fsf@armitage.lysator.liu.se> @ 2015-12-18 14:45 ` Ludovic Courtès [not found] ` <87mvt7lsrm.fsf@gnu.org> 2015-12-18 16:53 ` Christopher Allan Webber 2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-18 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Niels Möller; +Cc: Guix-devel, Torbjörn Granlund, gmp-bugs nisse@lysator.liu.se (Niels Möller) skribis: > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: > >> I dare say that technical expertise does not excuse disdain and >> contempt. This behavior is actively harmful to GMP and GNU. > > Some developers may be more polite than others, but you really need to > follow the bug reporting instructions. Of course I need to follow them. The crucial thing is that this can be said in a respectful way, like you did. No need to be insulting. > If you are disappointed about any individual's behaviour, I suspect it's > usually more productive to start by trying to solve it off list (maybe > you did? I wouldn't know of course). Mailing list discussons about > personal issues tend to overheat too easily. This is not a personal issue at all. This behavior is a problem not just for me (it wouldn’t matter, I could just refrain from ever contributing). It is a problem for the project. I think it is crucially important that you as a community recognize that this behavior is not acceptable. There’s nothing personal in doing that; it’s the behavior that we should condemn, not the person. It would be a missed opportunity if, once again, this behavior is quietly excused. Thank you Niels for having taken the time to reply. Ludo’. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <87mvt7lsrm.fsf@gnu.org>]
* Re: On being welcoming [not found] ` <87mvt7lsrm.fsf@gnu.org> @ 2015-12-18 15:29 ` Niels Möller 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Niels Möller @ 2015-12-18 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: Guix-devel, Torbjörn Granlund, gmp-bugs ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: > It would be a missed opportunity if, once again, this behavior is > quietly excused. If you are offended on a mailing list, or you see someone else being offended, I strongly recommend that you start with a *private* complaint, hoping for a *public* apology. That reduces the risk that the apology either drowns in an inproductive flame fest, or becomes impossible due to personal prestige invested in a public debate. Only if the private approach doesn't work out, consider escalating the issue. Regards, /Niels -- Niels Möller. PGP-encrypted email is preferred. Keyid C0B98E26. Internet email is subject to wholesale government surveillance. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: On being welcoming [not found] ` <nnlh8shy7c.fsf@armitage.lysator.liu.se> 2015-12-18 14:45 ` Ludovic Courtès [not found] ` <87mvt7lsrm.fsf@gnu.org> @ 2015-12-18 16:53 ` Christopher Allan Webber 2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Christopher Allan Webber @ 2015-12-18 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Niels Möller; +Cc: Guix-devel, Torbjörn Granlund, gmp-bugs Niels Möller writes: > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: > >> I dare say that technical expertise does not excuse disdain and >> contempt. This behavior is actively harmful to GMP and GNU. > > Some developers may be more polite than others, but you really need to > follow the bug reporting instructions. If it is a bug in gmp, we'd like > to fix it, of course. Or if it's a configuration error, we'd like to > resolve that too, but then we still need to start with the proper bug > reporting information. Certainly that's true, though of course a "please file this upstream in GMP, we'd really like to handle it there" would be a nice way to handle things. And of course hashing out what's happening locally is not unusual behavior; Debian does much work to determine whether a bug is a Debian-local issue or if it is an upstream issue, and if so (hopefully) file and resolve upstream. It is not always a perfect process, but Guix is also a distribution, and it's unsurprising that some conversation would likely happen here first. I doubt that Ludovic would have been opposed to filing upstream if the upstream developers encouraged that... I don't think that was the issue here. >> It also illustrates why codes of conduct are more than a cosmetic >> gimmick. > > I'd prefer not to not have the general code-of-conduct-debate on the > gmp-bugs list. Sure, though this conversation was on the Guix list. > If you are disappointed about any individual's behaviour, I suspect it's > usually more productive to start by trying to solve it off list (maybe > you did? I wouldn't know of course). Mailing list discussons about > personal issues tend to overheat too easily. Sometimes that's true, and I agree, contacting an individual off-list is usually the first line to handle, especially for smaller issues. In general, I think this is the best approach to get good community interaction. I don't know if it happened or not. Though sometimes it is good to give a reply on-list, even in the first instance, so that it can be clear to a community what behavior is and isn't okay. > (And it has taken me more than 30 minutes to formulate this reply, which > I hope is sufficiently polite and respectful. I really hope that was time > well spent). I thought it was very polite and respectful, thank you! - Chris > Best regards, > /Niels ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM 2015-12-16 11:29 GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-16 13:02 ` Torbjörn Granlund @ 2015-12-18 23:14 ` Ludovic Courtès 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-18 23:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Guix-devel ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) skribis: > When GMP 6.1.0 is built with --host=none-unknown-linux-gnueabihf on > ARMv7 (the way GCC configures its in-tree GMP, as of GCC 4.9.3), > ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ is missing from the resulting libgmp.a. For the record I worked around it in 8309c38 (‘core-updates’). Ludo’. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2015-12-19 17:21 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2015-12-16 11:29 GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-16 13:02 ` Torbjörn Granlund 2015-12-16 22:39 ` Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-17 1:07 ` Torbjörn Granlund 2015-12-17 21:45 ` Christopher Allan Webber 2015-12-17 21:48 ` On being welcoming Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-18 4:25 ` Mike Mohr 2015-12-18 15:51 ` Niels Möller 2015-12-18 19:04 ` Torbjörn Granlund 2015-12-19 17:21 ` Mike Mohr [not found] ` <nn1tajiwlk.fsf@armitage.lysator.liu.se> 2015-12-18 19:09 ` Christopher Allan Webber 2015-12-18 10:01 ` Niels Möller [not found] ` <nnlh8shy7c.fsf@armitage.lysator.liu.se> 2015-12-18 14:45 ` Ludovic Courtès [not found] ` <87mvt7lsrm.fsf@gnu.org> 2015-12-18 15:29 ` Niels Möller 2015-12-18 16:53 ` Christopher Allan Webber 2015-12-18 23:14 ` GMP 6.1.0 without assembly lacks ‘__gmpn_invert_lib’ on ARM Ludovic Courtès
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