From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: George Clemmer Subject: Re: Roadmap for Guix 1.0 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:25:35 -0400 Message-ID: <877ek6lijk.fsf@gmail.com> References: <878t5udq9u.fsf@gnu.org> <20180730012352.k56ka6psrtsofjv2@thebird.nl> <3950fd65549969614ebbcd16ed974f26@hypermove.net> <875zzsdqm2.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <87wos8xdqm.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1o89flh.fsf@elephly.net> <87a7p3zmzu.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50671) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fvkQJ-0001AA-C7 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:29:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fvkMp-00013O-3j for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:25:44 -0400 In-reply-to: List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A1bor?= Boskovits Cc: Guix-devel , guix-devel-bounces+amirouche=hypermove.net@gnu.org G=C3=A1bor Boskovits writes: > George Clemmer ezt =C3=ADrta (id=C5=91pont: 2018. aug.= 30., Cs, > 21:14): > >> >> Ricardo Wurmus writes: >> >> > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> > >> >> Hello, >> >> >> >> I think =E2=80=9CGuix System=E2=80=9D is OK. >> > >> > I think so too. >> >> I recommend against renaming GuixSD >> "Guix System". Here is Why: >> >> 1) A noob would expect "guix system" to refer to the whole Guix >> enchilada. If we use it to refer to GuixSD, a specific Guix deployment >> mode, we have created a new, counter-intuitive thing we have to explain. >> >> 2) As Ricardo points out below, the "guix system" command clashes with >> this use of Guix system. This is a second counter-intuitive thing we >> would have to explain. >> >> Bottom line: we shouln'd use the general term "Guix System" in any way >> beyond, perhaps in a descriptway way, e.g., The Guix project develops >> the Guix System, a set of tools that manage software environments. >> >> >> Most of the time we=E2=80=99ll just say =E2=80=9CGuix=E2=80=9D, as >> >> is already the case, and when we need to disambiguate (for instance w= hen >> >> addressing bugs), we=E2=80=99ll ask =E2=80=9CAre you using Guix Syste= m?=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CAre you >> >> using the Guix distro?=E2=80=9D, and everything will be fine. :-) >> > >> > Exactly. >> > >> > I wrote this on IRC: >> > >> > The name =E2=80=9CGuixSD=E2=80=9D is opaque and creates an arbitrary d= istinction between >> > the system running on bare metal and the systems you can create with t= he >> > =E2=80=9Cguix system=E2=80=9D commands. It makes it difficult to comm= unicate about >> > Guix. Do we really offer =E2=80=9Ca package manager=E2=80=9D and a = =E2=80=9Cdistro=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 or is it >> > really all one thing with various levels? >> > >> > The =E2=80=9Cguix system=E2=80=9D command can be used without GuixSD t= o create Guix >> > virtual machines or containers. Describing =E2=80=9Cguix system=E2=80= =9D is difficult >> > when we think in terms of =E2=80=9Cpackage manager=E2=80=9D vs =E2=80= =9Cdistro=E2=80=9D. Guix itself is >> > also a distro =E2=80=93 none of the packages it provides link with the= host >> > system, and the collection of packages is a distribution of free >> > software. >> > >> > I think that simplifying the name by using =E2=80=9Cguix=E2=80=9D as a= category will >> > make communication easier. >> > >> >> The motivation for this name change is that =E2=80=9CSD=E2=80=9D is o= bscure to most, as >> >> you note, plus it creates confusion when people visit the web site: t= he >> >> web site has a =E2=80=9CGuixSD=E2=80=9D logo, but then it talks about= features of the >> >> package manager. Designating the whole tool set as =E2=80=9CGuix=E2= =80=9D will simplify >> >> this, and we can always be more specific when we need to. >> > >> > I agree. >> >> I agree too. You may recall that I recommendi this approach when we >> discussed the web site in January. That thread includes a product >> description [1] that might be a good place to start when describing the >> "whole tool set". >> >> [1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2018-01/msg00457.html >> >> What do you think about GuixSD >> "Guix Distribution"? This naming seems > to resolve the ambiguities mentioned so far, and has a widespread > use, that exactly matches the intended meaning. WDYT? Hi G=C3=A1bor, I think this discussion was primarily triggered by the realization that we can improve the top-level presentation of Guix by downplaying the distinction between Guix and GuixSD. In fact, we could delay the introduction of Guix/GuixSD to the download page. A more informative download page might look like: Use Guix to manage ... entire computers: GuixSD download options: x86_64 i686 VMs: download options: GuixSD x86_64-QEMU-image GNU/Linux user environments: Guix download options: x86_64, i686, armhf, aarch64 Here we see the primary purpose of the Guix/GuixSD labels is to identify the different download options and to enable the user to find the correct install instructions and doc sections for whatever they download. GuixSD doesn't necessarily need to be changed. But the issue has been raised, as mentioned above, that because "SD" is not a recognized abbreviation "GuixSD" carries no intuitive meaning. If we want an improved label for the Guix system distribution, the best one is probably "GuixOS" since "OS" is a widely used and recognized abbreviation ... Term google hits OS 3.0 * 10**9 operating system 0.7 * 10**9 system distribution 0.5 * 10**9 I guess the issue with this is that it seems odd to say "the GNU Guix GNU/Linux System Distribution, abbreviated GuixOS" ;-) HTH - George