From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id CJn9AftX+F85ZAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:02:51 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id UACAOfpX+F/4aQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:02:50 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A423B9403D2 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2021 13:02:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48520 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxrPl-0002Zw-8W for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 08:02:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36106) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxrPO-0002ZX-MO; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 08:02:26 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35134) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxrPL-0002vK-IC; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 08:02:23 -0500 Received: from [2001:980:1b4f:1:42d2:832d:bb59:862] (port=33596 helo=dundal.janneke.lilypond.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kxrPJ-0004R8-JR; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 08:02:22 -0500 From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen To: arnold@skeeve.com Subject: Re: [Tinycc-devel] [bootstrappable] Re: wip-full-source-bootstrap: from a 357-byte `hex0' to 'hello' Organization: AvatarAcademy.nl References: <87im8cvdpa.fsf@gnu.org> <36b3777d90af6fa2e1c1778ba183111e@codethink.co.uk> <87lfd5rpr8.fsf@gnu.org> <20210107211058.40e0813a@scratchpost.org> <20210107212324.36bfd236@scratchpost.org> <20210107235208.04835b95@scratchpost.org> <87ble0ueq7.fsf@gnu.org> <202101080805.108857QR027933@freefriends.org> X-Url: http://AvatarAcademy.nl Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2021 14:02:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <202101080805.108857QR027933@freefriends.org> (arnold@skeeve.com's message of "Fri, 08 Jan 2021 01:05:07 -0700") Message-ID: <877donr38p.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, tinycc-devel@nongnu.org, paul.sherwood@codethink.co.uk, bootstrappable@freelists.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.85 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A423B9403D2 X-Spam-Score: -2.85 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: TtHqrq+yx91a > Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: Hello Arnold! >> to the gawk-mesbot0 recipe also fixes "inc.awk". The pre >> increment/decrement code looks like this: >> >> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- >> *lhs =3D make_number(lval + >> (tree->type =3D=3D Node_preincrement ? 1.0 : -1.0)); >> >> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > What in the world? That looks like gawk 3.x code, which is > terribly ancient. What project is still using a version that old? We are removing binary seeds from the GNU Guix package graph. The binary packages in Guix form an acyclic graph and at the bottom of the graph we originally had binutils, glibc, gcc, bash, coreutils&co (gawk, gzip, sed, tar, ...). Since 2016 we have been working to eliminate those binary seeds. For a complete overview and more background see https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2020/guix-further-reduces-bootstrap-seed-t= o-25/ https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/guix-reduces-bootstrap-seed-by-50/ but what we did is remove all those, replacing them by Stage0, GNU Mes, tinycc...and multiple versions of ancient GNU tools. Using ancient tools is less than great, we are using those because "it works" or rather, we didn't succeed as yet using newer versions. Often, newer versions of a software are more demanding in their requirements and are less bootstrappale. In other cases, ancient software does not build with newer tools, because they are more strict. > Arnold > (The gawk maintainer) Thanks for reaching out! Sadly I do not have more concrete information (let alone a bug report or feature request) for you yet, other than that we are using gawk-3.0.0, lateron v3.1.8, and only finally v5.0.1. Simalarly for other tools. The biggest hudle was bootstrapping glibc and gcc, as you can imagine. Currently, we start with gcc-2.95.3 and I would very much like to target gcc-4.6.4 directly instead. For a tool as gawk, it would be great to be able to the latest greatest! Greetings, Janneke (GNU Mes author) --=20 Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar=C2=AE http://AvatarAcademy.com