From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id NBlNElHVVGDoFQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 16:46:09 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id eDqfDVHVVGAxCgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 16:46:09 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF1CE1EAAB for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:46:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42376 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNIGF-00008H-Vj for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 12:46:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55308) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNIFR-000068-8d for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 12:45:18 -0400 Received: from mx1.dismail.de ([78.46.223.134]:40264) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNIFM-0002He-SK for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 12:45:17 -0400 Received: from mx1.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 6a035de5; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:45:08 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=dismail.de; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=20190914; bh=bSVFVxoWt3uEasAMmHDg2QS8A/Gjf70M7Z O+kCm3bgg=; b=QzABQkzk/afurssiFDVovK9u78osEk4MEBSpmW47sKRaR0akFn JRCJB4DdyHVm9lni5eoRuZBIIUlDs3QWbdFmXGmQdIu9WGNFHSzjAJGpnJGx+9qm qvFQeqFDY7WyAnSK4K7oA7m1nXz9b5gEHscE3fea6OqCDQe0vCXsc1L8RAdn9159 FapSWKyvnJUv6sOFGUh6fndvyw09FPXN8UjVWXeWqa7UxVSBAQv7DsoeW0IPX4Wo pDmvvAVMghyVk7HggebMsmWcDgSWhJO1/jOCjiO82fW2MLGU3mNSsNA3lKd5kx+j udIkmtZ76UJRheCqZ62fzJOwr7RyHOjFi3dg== Received: from smtp1.dismail.de ( [10.240.26.11]) by mx1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 6ea673cc; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:45:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0c74e285; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:45:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 09e4dcef (TLSv1.3:AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:45:05 +0100 (CET) From: Joshua Branson To: pinoaffe Cc: raingloom , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: [SPITBALL] Jehanne as another kernel option / porting target References: <20210319012445.678308ed@riseup.net> <87o8ff8jb9.fsf@airmail.cc> Mail-Followup-To: pinoaffe , raingloom , guix-devel@gnu.org Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 12:44:47 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87o8ff8jb9.fsf@airmail.cc> (pinoaffe@airmail.cc's message of "Fri, 19 Mar 2021 12:38:34 +0100") Message-ID: <877dm3ozy8.fsf@dismail.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=78.46.223.134; envelope-from=jbranso@dismail.de; helo=mx1.dismail.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1616172368; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=yRBMu+EatM7vk47ofJ7YEVHL40czL1k9kNgRufQa3ug=; b=N2asqjnTkRudZYbAsGpEAeO+1Wfe7eJkYY6JhS6hquRXBf9IUkVXilDVoLrG9SBo8A+DW6 vLpUDdKDTKcQjHGfjd7jmbEmwNYjYGE9cMuGICGNAW/Q+bQxY6aGEA6hM+xFE4aAE43F6D ZDUZQ+zX7wyVpDsFfm0lwayrtsZUvDkhdjjDo9yNmaspJ/sZ36Gbt5g5gYhZpb9UaCrnUO 7dxJIeHALfw76OV9cIoArArO/lG3CuvAoGBGEcnEt+ebDMpEU9CODi/WcAv2foefwaLSss amqXPajVqrOW0nHHaxOq8iLpcjfcuutKadXeOBMq7o1bSUjaNs2AF7AXA93Oow== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1616172368; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ogAcd4sg30ylNfIgcSHzAoSSIqZoNYPuDWmFPaKjpivuL+heVPsoYiWC2L1RybbslogrtM YJYTiyTH76zp2pxKTttx5FrwaxAwRi1mXYsx8LA9iepe2v7IwcDJ/HN2iA18p9VTvFEwcP bFeY6jXPkywdE4mNZqyVCwDUTUVBfSl0E+imwo+8JEII+HJQRADr3L7gdt/JZ9q1PkNdNM 4hRV6oBGWUMQA+cfay2RaN7sApPdHxVD2nnUIkSmC9GJx2ekelRfI3c/ldH95Ny7fYDKrE Mp+QJPqlcQuUfHcDHv/UykvtO5V5RrUdjH0fFgjs2GawI9bVEWdgDdoIoEyS5w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=dismail.de header.s=20190914 header.b=QzABQkzk; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=dismail.de header.s=20190914 header.b=QzABQkzk; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=dismail.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: BF1CE1EAAB X-Spam-Score: -3.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: M1YeSYXxuM1y pinoaffe writes: > raingloom writes: > >> seL4 would be cool too. > Didn't someone do some work on making hurd run on SEL4? > Or am I misremembering You are correct. :) https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/history/port_to_another_microkernel.html By now (that is, after 2006), there were some new L4 variants available, which added protected IPC paths and other features necessary for object-capability systems; so it might be possible to implement the Hurd on top of these. However, by that time the developers concluded that microkernel design and system design are interconnected in very intricate ways, and thus trying to use a third-party microkernel will always result in trouble. So Neal Walfield created the experimental Viengoos kernel instead -- based on the experience from the previous experiments with L4 and Coyotos -- for his research on resource management. Currently he works in another research area though, and thus Viengoos is on hold. So essentially most of the active hurd developers considered a port to a different microkernel to be impractical. :( However, one of the main hurd developers (he has since stepped away from active development), started a hurd clone: x15. https://www.sceen.net/x15/ He claimed that the original GNU Hurd has too many bad design decisions. So he started from scratch writing a kernel. His kernel x15 is NOT a mach replacement. However, some of the code he wrote for x15 has been incorporated in the GNU Hurd. :) -- Joshua Branson (joshuaBPMan in #guix) Sent from Emacs and Gnus https://gnucode.me https://video.hardlimit.com/accounts/joshua_branson/video-channels https://propernaming.org "You can have whatever you want, as long as you help enough other people get what they want." - Zig Ziglar