From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0KWMB6Pjo2DLbQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 17:56:19 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 6DpNA6Pjo2CudQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 15:56:19 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9363315A9B for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 17:56:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:49254 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lj24v-00084t-Ld for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 18 May 2021 11:56:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50998) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1liqcB-0000DD-B6 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 May 2021 23:41:52 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:38122) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1liqc8-0005kd-UD; Mon, 17 May 2021 23:41:51 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E310C511F1; Tue, 18 May 2021 05:41:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with UTF8SMTP id kfOjcLQNxai8; Tue, 18 May 2021 05:41:43 +0200 (CEST) References: <87v97jhot4.fsf@inria.fr> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1621309153; bh=arPvUir8w9u1AByGp/SWZwx+o7lPU6IhhCzJq+IErdE=; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date; b=CixfIn9vWemPA/uA6Gx5oLvUXzischSG99CgS4cXEXUi18H42nVhcr0HKM/3Dbn2L vypnKAZc6uPt+P/a5cZsPqCplXPE2ORp1YJVYgHyL+tTq8WgrCAr8r84olcvUTNXNL ql5k0/7Qe5jtPnqBKTp2aU6WUsKNOKKquGM0o4rPYYoa8dlzmUHHx+6SJ7xvONsyUR wV/J61i01Q2UfgIgXkwTyww3CEDFY/TIDukZCuyfH0ORi5hWB3iWpnvt2kzWd1NO3H d5x2WqL9ji2vbGyITQ4rqOnB0ethFP/HmbWRF9g2NBRpgHV7CpZ9g07H0W4ObXIYjk 0icx//IZ5cCgg== From: Bone Baboon To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: =?utf-8?Q?What=E2=80=99s?= next? 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1621353378; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=yLjo2QAv8I8XV6H/wPKuj0WUvO8Gz+cOgEGyOtLCO0k=; b=sgYCWOA0MrK9E2LWQ5FDhVftO5eNHle+Plgrlkjpi0TMECzQ5GOvmZHJ5+RawTiw8ZQNmm hRM5mjVdS7TZ7sKCyEjtVC/siLsVsg4A0RkAIQYRlRQSrucSbuWmYeAkmaGVBpP/EAeXev 8OCMLRnm0vAo1E6Lg7MIW294S/kS9g8VWqBhMoUX4sC6OUcBoZG4Xgqk/brTdj7N1iAFVv mEChioddzySkZy3sU9eBZ1nc7fNeQcYH+keucdQedv7+wDu4Ne3b+qP4cX1gZTRv2DX2Ul MMX7VSYisaH1OV78r7sLPm68TCGArm/xRHraPHBStBCBprlIaHNPZaxHLUVjgg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1621353378; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=RDIWnZZWZ12/zRxlY3DGGeYh7EIq75M5IvNBaG0o3NFz2WtOP0EeB7uX7SSmG+kTXKHr4L FR/ZxuGpngX/KTSATBpvVt38o8Bmj+OmD2MWy8mVuHa5Jfb1khBlTgBixcza+zdjMLOqr0 4Q6G585GPi6+1sdD2ohu907UnqmmYrNsBcLb8q7zIWc6sL9Nu7V2UXxUspHKyGaNFkPiop DAZO1dh3SouFuudWsHukAn5D8rRMF3b7dI3nbg2TZuGRMW41ugPZ2glox7HbngJCxRgXdH HXzKvHQnRd3Tg13VwtgkuLsESjK2+tTWTbUpgLYy4IBUcETItRNIni5H3kvJyg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=disroot.org header.s=mail header.b=CixfIn9v; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=disroot.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.64 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=disroot.org header.s=mail header.b=CixfIn9v; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=disroot.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9363315A9B X-Spam-Score: -1.64 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ZmlKExwi+iiM Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > So, now that 1.3.0 is out the door, what=E2=80=99s next?! > What=E2=80=99s your wish list? What do you feel an urge to hack on? :-) There are two improvements on my Guix wish list. 1) Make the core parts of Guix reproducible ** I do not know if this fits into the 4-6 month time frame mentioned. 2) Alternative kernel ** Motivated by 1. ** Longer term beyond 6 months. 1) Make the core parts of Guix reproducible Many core parts of Guix are not reproducible. If more core parts of Guix were reproducible it would benefit all Guix users. There are several core parts of Guix that are not reproducible including: * Linux-libre https://issues.guix.gnu.org/24028#2 Note: I like what the Linux-libre project is doing. This is likely a result of Linux not being reproducible. * Many guix-* https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48487#0 * Guile https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48490#0 * nss 3.59 on the master branch https://issues.guix.gnu.org/40316#5 * Emacs https://issues.guix.gnu.org/35085#7 Note: A good text editor is important. nvi, vim and neovim are reproducible for me. Emacs is more than a text editor and that is a part of why it is not reproducible.=20 2) Alternative kernel It is important to have a reproducible kernel. Linux-libre is not reproducible (see 1 above). Linux-libre has not been reproducible for an extended period of time. Linux-libre not being reproducible was reported in 2016 . provides an interesting thought exercise. What free libre kernel would Guix use if Linux was no longer a viable option? I do not agree with all their points. The point on Linux complexity increasing rapidly (13:29-17:56) is the one I would be most concerned about. Both Linux-libre not being reproducible and the idea that Linux might not be viable in the future highlight the importance (and potential urgency) of having an alternative free libre kernel that Guix can run on. It is great that work is already underway to get Guix to run on the Gnu Hurd microkernel. I think the design concept of a microkernel make them more resistant to the problem of increasing complexity at the kernel level when compared to monolithic kernels. With microkernels the increased complexity is pushes out to user processes. This allows the user (or their operating system) to choose the level of complexity. is a listing of microkernel projects.