From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id wJVnEEUAnmJGeAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 15:25:25 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id aBtiEEUAnmKPSAEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 15:25:25 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8BA516C8C for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 15:25:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:40984 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyBbe-0000og-G3 for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 08:13:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44858) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyBb2-0000n7-Eb for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 08:12:36 -0400 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:34384) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyBau-0007Hs-Vy; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 08:12:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender :Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Z3xMY8pOGXCq2YT4PW23K9Rv6XgLvFLAqpFsGRfhIKc=; b=ZuGIXS9/CJ+X4SDTNU6yS6T3Lb mnrzCu340XbYsxDSLEagQ66sEY2z1jSwEr4FGhmD2UpNhtlH55J1a+OSILaMoYit0sG5K87bGZnLG DKG9YUyQS05kNZIoYvWiHqVCHoh4iMePSQWg88xxjPNAoGj5epx2oUZIvXYKkqJ0B3vCnLxdtUA/g reVVsrLtT6vLcyj9kWaYws1u/YH9jcPow9J0ZaWldVsjtj8Pq9BVfjsII8IGrY7LdKv/zOGrTHpcs q2aoUec8L4UQWbKAUorFYMoET1dAOnbBstz4ALISbibluAqvhfIeD4z5Zg21rwlylleDfWjO/FB82 ow/TjC1Q==; Received: from [192.168.2.1] (port=17778 helo=steel) by systemreboot.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1nyBaE-000AW7-Rc; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 17:41:47 +0530 From: Arun Isaac To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Guix Devel Cc: GNU Guix maintainers Subject: Re: On commit access, patch review, and remaining healthy In-Reply-To: <87ee07m77w.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ee07m77w.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2022 17:41:45 +0530 Message-ID: <877d5um1oe.fsf@systemreboot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=139.59.75.54; envelope-from=arunisaac@systemreboot.net; helo=mugam.systemreboot.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1654521925; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Z3xMY8pOGXCq2YT4PW23K9Rv6XgLvFLAqpFsGRfhIKc=; b=L2bljHCgpAL0RKm+M6mStNGOsA3oMJsYcfu2ID8zwPHJLUL+lDSNZ1Npf/5AXoaq9eQCZT K1F5mwPOVnOXkxwxDrOnSH/3zVX1fGT+Ttl1a4TlXg3eoOdicQXw4CDn/tz3zPqPA+iqJv M6cY6noL3pfZ7Xdpk7GgZnKhaDsZn7g4bK5OFdW765oyBvjxU8NRq4q6h1/HXe+Ash+hbr FKjPRvSkq+WnnTQGLGTkT//wDLIFLM7ez8o5vOd0h7m/RmobpJuZE8Te+8UId7tdK25tK8 NXP4j4cgp+8HYgzZpS1s3o9P++UDcyFGA8gnPkHyS8mnZl0/1HQ01rDaSZpLsQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1654521925; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Tv7tOWu5/0i0mqsXzLLvwz9VCNEAI1LCnbU7tfh6nME+Gu/1V95tOGj7lhHcX3wYgAkGQU rapmFNEvwmVdj3vikXx894ldM1QMchKJSXzl9UfBvVCLwZFThmXPnwqtbBLD13hkk7l3nV I7Cx1sGJTQ3mXw+s/tt3kiqiiD4GaNz8LLsDdMjwPdPInePF27ZH0QJXf9PEmN4vcmU/Yy fROG4JsZsGZWJIN/YF4DCzyCrymc0cDJ+s83PZdvDLECY2si6HyGdZhUaKH+twXwQoDGha Ap0zlfYepYzieN02uzsS+baoZfxdFWphPkag09x0f0qRdK9Xah31fISczoZ0Hg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=systemreboot.net header.s=default header.b="ZuGIXS9/"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=systemreboot.net (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 4.89 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=systemreboot.net header.s=default header.b="ZuGIXS9/"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=systemreboot.net (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E8BA516C8C X-Spam-Score: 4.89 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: O72IhyhpOEPa Hi all, Tooling aside, at least for me, I think there is an important emotional and psychological aspect to patch review. Maybe others share it too. So, I'll speak up. Sometimes, I don't review and commit patches because I feel like I am not qualified to review them, and am afraid of pushing a "bad commit". Guix has very high coding standards (which I very much appreciate, BTW), but that means that there is a high cost of failure and a pressure to live up to that high standard. This means that even if I'm 99% sure of a commit, I tend to leave it to others because of that nagging 1% doubt I have about some trivial aspect of the patch. The 1% doubt could even be about really trivial things like indentation or the name of a variable. In other words, perfectionism causes paralysis. This excessive self-doubt is created by feeling like one doesn't "belong" in the elite community of Guix hackers. This problem may be alleviated somewhat by having more frequent (say, once in 3=E2=80=934 month= s) meetups and encouraging participation by shy people like myself. Having human non-technical relationships with other members of the Guix community can also go a long way. The WhereIsEveryone meetups already help greatly. Perhaps Ricardo's idea of guix-mentors is another direction worth pursuing. If this same thread had come up a year or two ago, I would most likely have remained silent. The only reason I feel alright talking today is because recently I have got to know more members of the community "face-to-face" (through online meetings), and feel more comfortable opening up. I generally prefer text-only communication like email, but sometimes, putting a human face on people and having a casual conversation about nothing in particular, goes a long long way. Cheers! Arun