From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4B5EA+FpmGRF8QAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 18:22:57 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id aLpXA+FpmGSJiAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 18:22:57 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6C2338112 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 18:22:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qDSVK-00068o-SR; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:22:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qDSVI-00066A-Dl for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:22:20 -0400 Received: from mx0.riseup.net ([198.252.153.6]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qDSVF-0002EG-IM for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:22:20 -0400 Received: from fews02-sea.riseup.net (fews02-sea-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.112]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.riseup.net", Issuer "R3" (not verified)) by mx0.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qpx874rw7z9tGq; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 16:22:15 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1687710135; bh=aa8U+mzGIVL36C/j0ZMqWzmPITwxyBNsSUN7stL6mjU=; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to:From; b=Zu+uMw4scrKoPHJCZtFDsvOrcVHJlFXH0d/+ZfFOS2YiviecxfFNjDFugCKLlZLAF MWDcrtRxrLyVTdm7W5LqEkf+tDri8JDqtED1RuNNLdG8Tm/wSqHLQ+vJFNyDPxBe7R R82qG1VQLxhVq0xWFb/qHU6FtQ1ltrOOwUgIuycE= X-Riseup-User-ID: 5FC8A3773D2C34719FD947DD978F887A7EDCE28F8E2ECA4E00D8A86AB90216AA Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews02-sea.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qpx866dSFzFrxv; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 16:22:14 +0000 (UTC) References: <87h6qzzll7.fsf@ngraves.fr> <87h6qxyv2m.fsf@riseup.net> <87wmztqd8t.fsf@ngraves.fr> From: Csepp To: Nicolas Graves Cc: Csepp , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Maybe a way to get a few more developpers to work on Guix ? 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1687710176; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=aa8U+mzGIVL36C/j0ZMqWzmPITwxyBNsSUN7stL6mjU=; b=XsFJKyq/MDCzm2hvv/mW57cJx5l45xuL6GkpDozb/SYge62Nn5PYu5gT/4PubXqQPFo22y EcuCCmqKn01tpSxy3u4XjPWAfkjVaMl/u2q+WK3AaeL01TSXB3Caf/1YH5eROWEi8AOCDm FA3CYwWaH8ln1koBT1497mWxU6v6MKr5YXuaFsLvmPZudmU6mud8veiSAebFEUMEtnIFuT Y+To7cd0A1rrNivhmRDoYkKh2+fswHx2NWHpdMUgufyBT10pR2u9Ajf2uU40Dx2kSvk5M0 Pz42Zv8xO/X10kPutvjzz8zV3KdMzz7EafbS01mbOiARxusyuAHcbTSpLoqyMw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=Zu+uMw4s; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1687710176; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=fSFEO2FZbrHfk4OPpqEbZ21HbER5W3bKDn1IN9YvaexPhctO+ClCSIkTXpEA1mocNgOJyz GRndlOoOTOHm0D7eGx5BQoX1DbrGS8J+51ke0OMRqmHRb7xYg5tF1o/0ZlDwVUPtgxw6Tv GSgP/XVIPqLkRuberqdCk+n5YFr8sToC1RJzo6ulWceFZ1LYhtEhp89w49pMm0vyK0fLWL 0fMpD+WA+urDIno2Al3pEnymk1o6WF/cWakddzHgpqV3LwFrGaIgSWw7FWcd7eMhoKPVWZ e6KQECLUoiwHPzF0fPEdpGjg+dfN3vByrPHBRTpV+lOIyOS7xe3C5vIyrLnofg== X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.10 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=Zu+uMw4s; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A6C2338112 X-Spam-Score: -4.10 X-TUID: elf8m6OJfDcf Nicolas Graves writes: > On 2023-06-24 13:08, Csepp wrote: > >> Nicolas Graves via "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." writes: >> >>> https://www.bpifrance.fr/nos-appels-a-projets-concours/appel-a-projets-communs-numeriques-pour-lintelligence-artificielle-generative >>> >>> Here's a call for proposal in French which could match a Guix project >>> with a focus on code generation through LLMs. This could itself help >>> Guix generate (and fix) package definitions. >> >> Mandatory reading for anyone interested in this: >> https://limited.systems/articles/climate-cost-of-ai-revolution/ > > I fully agree on that as well. I don't think training a full-fetched LLM > is nowhere worth it, but I've heard that just fine-tuning an open model > with quantized weights might get the job done training and energy costs > down to a few hundred bucks. >From the "Key points" section right at beginning of the linked article: "Training of large AI models is not the problem" "Large-scale use of large AI models would be unsustainable" It's not the cost in money that I care about, it's the cost in emissions, which is not included in the few hundred bucks. (ie.: it's an externality) However, using other machine learning models that can actually run efficiently might make sense. But really, what we need for package availability is more support code in the form of better importers and updaters, better testing, better coverage, more accessible workflows - the email workflow could certainly be improved by *a lot* - better bug tracking, and so on. There are also very well founded concerns about the quality of the code that LLMs produce.