FOSDEM 2019

FOSDEM 2019

[Manolis Ragkousis]

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Hello everyone,

It's that time of the year again we need to start organizing about
FOSDEM. We have a deadline for the 20th of September[1] to apply for a
devroom. We also need to start looking for a place for this year's
fringe event!

I created a libreplanet page[2] to start writing possible talk ideas in
case we get a devroom.

We also need to write a proposal for our devroom application. The last
year's proposal should be a good start. (attached) We should also talk
with the Lua people in case we can share a devroom with them.

Start sending ideas people!! This FOSDEM is going to be awesome!

Thank you,
Manolis

[1] https://fosdem.org/2019/news/2018-08-10-call-for-participation/
[2] https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019


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* Devroom name:

GNU Guile — the official extension language for the GNU Project

* Devroom description:

The [[https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/][GNU Guile]] programming
language is dynamically typed and
multi-paradigm.  Guile allows for functional approaches,
object-oriented programming using GOOPs (a CLOS-like object system),
logic programming, and system scripting.  Guile is suited for
meta-programming and has a powerful macro-system which allows users to
change the language on the fly.  Guile features a growing set of
bindings and libraries for libssh, git, json, sdl, opengl, cairo, gtk,
redis, SQL, etc.

GNU Guile is the preferred extension system for the GNU Project which
features an implementation of the Scheme programming language, a
dialect of Lisp with a mature community. GNU Guile is continually
improved where recent milestones were a new compiler infrastructure, a
virtual machine implementation, a switch to the Boehm-Demers-Weiser
garbage collector and many improvements to the Guile Scheme language
itself.  Major performance improvements were demonstrated at FOSDEM
with a new optimizing compiler which is now part of the recent 2.2
release. Other recent additions are a "sandbox" facility that can run
code from untrusted users and improved support for immutable data.

The use of GNU Guile is growing.  Amongst the current applications
written in Guile, there are AO, a new 3D CAD engine; Skribilo, Artanis
and Haunt, (web) templating engines; Sly, a gaming engine; and (of
course) GNU Guix, a functional software deployment manager for the GNU
Project which also underpins GuixSD a new functional GNU/Linux
Distribution. GNU Guix is a rapidly growing project that distinguishes
itself by creating 100% reproducible software installations generated
by a hackable system.  GNU Guix is an important driver for GNU Guile
development because the massive project puts large demands on GNU
Guile. In the last year GNU Guix has grown 40% from approx. 200K to
280K lines of source code whereof an amazing 260K lines are written in
GNU Guile!  GNU Guix has great support for developers, including the
GNU Emacs eco-system and GNU Guile (of course), but also for Java,
Clojure, Perl, Ruby, Python, Haskell, GO, D, Erlang, and Elixir.

Interesting spin-offs of Guix are a Guile make replacement,
virtualization of development environments, the Shepherd and a new
approach to system service integration; and the bootstrappable.org
effort with Mes and Nyacc, a project for creating bootstrapped build
systems from source only (also presented at FOSDEM last year) which
tries to revert the current trend of bootstrapping build systems with
binaries. Bootstrapping from source is crucial to free software
distribution.

Other noteworthy GNU Guile applications include GNU Lilypond, GnuCash,
and GNU Mcron a cron-compatible task scheduler.  More GNU Guile projects
can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Guile and
https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/libraries/.

The devroom will provide at least the following content with a focus
on software development:

- An introduction to GNU Guile
- Guile Next: Latest developments in GNU Guile
- Concurrent programming with Fibers and 8sync
- Compiler implementation in Guile
- Web frameworks with GNU Guile
- Shepherd the systemd replacement
- GNU Guix
    + Latest GNU Guix developments
    + Tooling for development environments
    + Whole-system deployment, and distributed deployment
- Guile and network programming
    + Dealing with concurrency in networking applications
    + Application performance
- The Guile community
  + Freedom can be expressed in multiple ways
  + Encouraging and mentoring newbies; encourage diversity
  + Tutorials and documentation

A complete list of currently considered talks can be found at
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/TalkProposals.

The purpose of the dev room is to present latest developments in Guile
itself, to share exciting news about, and demo applications using Guile,
to provide a space to meet with fellow hackers and enthusiasts, and to
grow the Guile community.

* Related URLs

  - GNU Project: http://www.gnu.org
  - GNU Guile: https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/
  - GNU Guile libs: https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/libraries/
  - GNU Guix: http://www.gnu.org/software/guix
  - MES and bootstrappable: https://gitlab.com/janneke/mes and
http://bootstrappable.org

* Why should FOSDEM accept this proposal?

GNU Guile is a core component of the successful and long running GNU
project, and today the fresh Lisp language is being discovered by a
new generation of programmers.  In 2016 we had our first half day
Guile devroom at FOSDEM and it was a great success: the devroom was
full for every talk!  In 2017 we were lucky to get a full day which
was also full all day. FOSDEM gives a great impulse by getting
developers together and projects like MES started there.  Both years,
together with the LUA devroom we overlapped a session where we
discussed the future of small languages (we are interested in sharing
the devroom with LUA again if we can not have a full day).

This would be the second opportunity for GNU Guile related projects
world-wide to meet at FOSDEM.  Similar to last year, we will invite
speakers from other projects that are loosely coupled to the Guile
environment (e.g. projects that use Guile purely as an extension
language, such as gdb and Lilypond).

In short, having this devroom will allow us to dig deeper into the
details of language design and reproducible software in particular,
whilst giving back to the free software community as a whole.

* Devroom organisers

  - Ludovic Courtès (ludo@gnu.org) - GNU Guile project leader
  - Ricardo Wurmus (ricardo.wurmus@mdc-berlin.de)
  - Pjotr Prins (pjotr.public445@thebird.nl)
  - Alex Sassmannshausen (alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com)
  - Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr>
  - Manolis Ragkousis <manolis837@gmail.com>

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Manolis,

> We also need to write a proposal for our devroom application. The last
> year's proposal should be a good start. (attached)

Thanks for getting the ball rolling!

If we base our application on this proposal I think we should make these
changes:

- mention the work on adding JIT

- mention “Chickadee” instead of “Sly” (Chickadee is a general purpose
  game development toolkit that sees continued development, whereas Sly
  is specifically for game development with functional reactive
  programming)

- change “AO” to “libfive Studio” (the project has been renamed)

- add “R” to the list of languages for which Guix has great support

- “Guile make replacement”?  Is this an actual thing?

- use HTTPS for http://bootstrappable.org

Obviously, the list of topics would need to change (that depends on the
proposals for talks) and references to “last year” would need to be
updated.

We should also figure out if there are enough people in the extended
Guile universe who would be willing to give a talk.  If we don’t have
enough topics we might want to share the room with other communities
that have some links to us (e.g. other Lispy languages, or “small”
languages, etc).

--
Ricardo

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Mike Gran]

> I created a libreplanet page[2] to start writing possible talk ideas in
> case we get a devroom.
> 
> We also need to write a proposal for our devroom application. The last
> year's proposal should be a good start. (attached) We should also talk
> with the Lua people in case we can share a devroom with them.
> 
> Start sending ideas people!! This FOSDEM is going to be awesome!

Under the topic of encouraging newbies (and tangentially in the topic
of increasing diversity), I could do a talk about my experiments in
writing interactive fiction in Guile.  I have had a goal of making
something as simple to use as the Twine interactive fiction engine.  I
posted that on the wiki for now.

-Mike Gran

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Andy Wingo]

On Tue 21 Aug 2018 19:57, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes:

> If we base our application on this proposal I think we should make these
> changes:
>
> - mention the work on adding JIT

Yes definitely!  This will be Guile 3, so we can call it "Just-in-time
code generation for Scheme: Speed for free in Guile 3" or something.
I'd be happy to give this talk.

Andy

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Mike Gran]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 04:33:53PM +0300, Manolis Ragkousis wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> It's that time of the year again we need to start organizing about
> FOSDEM. We have a deadline for the 20th of September[1] to apply for a
> devroom. We also need to start looking for a place for this year's
> fringe event!

Hi.

In your list, you mention "encouraging newbies" and "encouraging
diversity".  In that category, I could do a talk on my experiments in
writing interactive fiction in Scheme.  Interactive fiction tools like
Twine have been a first step for many young programmers, and tools
like Twine have been adopted by many young LGBT authors.  If we could
make the syntax simple and obvious enough, maybe an interactive
fiction tool in Guile could be useful.

But the technical challenge of making a simple tool has been
surprisingly complicated in interesting ways.

I went ahead and threw that up on the libreplanet wiki for now

Regards,
Mike Gran

Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[Pjotr Prins]

Who wants to come to a separate 2 day GNU Guix event?

That is the Thursday Jan 31st and/or Friday Feb 1st right before
FOSDEM. I.e., 4 days of hacker nirvana.

FOSDEM is really great. Look at last year's schedule for Saturday

  https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/day/saturday/

Last year we had a 1 day event with about 25 people before FOSDEM.
See

  https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018

If you intend to come and/or want to speak please add your name and
proposed title to the new page at

  https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018

Alternatively, reply here or mail me privately so we can keep a tally.

Please do so because we need to find a venue again on a first come
first go basis if we run out of seats.

Pj.

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 04:33:53PM +0300, Manolis Ragkousis wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> It's that time of the year again we need to start organizing about
> FOSDEM. We have a deadline for the 20th of September[1] to apply for a
> devroom. We also need to start looking for a place for this year's
> fringe event!

Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[alex sassmannshausen]

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I'm in.

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018, 11:23 Pjotr Prins, <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> wrote:

> Who wants to come to a separate 2 day GNU Guix event?
>
> That is the Thursday Jan 31st and/or Friday Feb 1st right before
> FOSDEM. I.e., 4 days of hacker nirvana.
>
> FOSDEM is really great. Look at last year's schedule for Saturday
>
>   https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/day/saturday/
>
> Last year we had a 1 day event with about 25 people before FOSDEM.
> See
>
>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018
>
> If you intend to come and/or want to speak please add your name and
> proposed title to the new page at
>
>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018
>
> Alternatively, reply here or mail me privately so we can keep a tally.
>
> Please do so because we need to find a venue again on a first come
> first go basis if we run out of seats.
>
> Pj.
>
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 04:33:53PM +0300, Manolis Ragkousis wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > It's that time of the year again we need to start organizing about
> > FOSDEM. We have a deadline for the 20th of September[1] to apply for a
> > devroom. We also need to start looking for a place for this year's
> > fringe event!
>

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Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:

> Who wants to come to a separate 2 day GNU Guix event?
>
> That is the Thursday Jan 31st and/or Friday Feb 1st right before
> FOSDEM. I.e., 4 days of hacker nirvana.

I plan to be there for the 2 days of Guix and the 2 FOSDEM days.

Please also let us know (privately, if you prefer) if your attendance
would be dependent on having on-site childcare.

--
Ricardo

GNU Guix Days before FOSDEM

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> skribis:

> If you intend to come and/or want to speak please add your name and
> proposed title to the new page at
>
>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018
>
> Alternatively, reply here or mail me privately so we can keep a tally.

The real URL is:

  https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#GNU_Guix_Days

I copied and adjusted the text from last year’s page.

Anyway, feel free to add your name if you would come, and ideas of talks
or hacking sessions we may have, so we can start planning!

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[Jonathan Brielmaier]

On 8/24/18 11:23 AM, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> Who wants to come to a separate 2 day GNU Guix event?
> 
> That is the Thursday Jan 31st and/or Friday Feb 1st right before
> FOSDEM. I.e., 4 days of hacker nirvana.
> 
> FOSDEM is really great. Look at last year's schedule for Saturday
> 
>   https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/day/saturday/
> 
> Last year we had a 1 day event with about 25 people before FOSDEM.
> See
> 
>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018
> 
> If you intend to come and/or want to speak please add your name and
> proposed title to the new page at
> 
>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018

The new link is apparently:
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Christopher Lemmer Webber]

Manolis Ragkousis writes:

> Hello everyone,
>
> It's that time of the year again we need to start organizing about
> FOSDEM. We have a deadline for the 20th of September[1] to apply for a
> devroom. We also need to start looking for a place for this year's
> fringe event!
>
> I created a libreplanet page[2] to start writing possible talk ideas in
> case we get a devroom.

Thanks for everyone is doing organizing, especially Manolis for kicking
this off!

I added a talk topic: "A Guiler's Year of Racket".  I think there's a
lot we could learn from our fellow friends in Racket-land, and I'd like
to share some of that!

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ludovic Courtès]

Heya,

Christopher Lemmer Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org> skribis:

> I added a talk topic: "A Guiler's Year of Racket".  I think there's a
> lot we could learn from our fellow friends in Racket-land, and I'd like
> to share some of that!

I’d be very interested in listening to it!

Ludo’.

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Pjotr Prins]

Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
we were last year. 

  http://icab.be/

In addition to the Guix conference there is the possibility to have a
dev-room at FOSDEM, but we need to apply for it. If the interest is as
underwhelming as it is now I think we better forget about it. These
things take effort to organize.

I think the 'minimalistic languages for big ideas' room has appeal to
a wider audience and some of our projects fit really well. Anyone
any project ideas? Or do we just forget about it? How about:

- Guile Guix build farm and Cuirass
- Sheperd (Guile)

Everyone, please think with us.

Pj.

On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 11:23:19AM +0200, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> * Minimalistic Languages 
> 
> Every year FOSDEM allows for dev-rooms that need to appeal to a wider
> audience and do not overlap with other dev-rooms. Programming
> languages are popular and some of the large languages get their own,
> such as Python and Rust. See the devrooms section on
> 
>   https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/
> 
> Manolis and I want to submit a plan for 'Minimalistic Languages - for
> big ideas' dev-room.  Good examples that fit the room are 
> 
> - mes and reproducible builds
> - Guile and Guix
> - Guile JIT
> - Lua JIT
> - Lua for scriptable projects (example?)
> 
> Anyone anything to add to this list? More ideas is better.
> 
> Other languages that could fit are Forth, Smalltalk, Tcl, Rebol.
> Provided they have a big idea.
> 
> Note that JVM languages and languages that compile to Javascript do
> not fit the room. They probably have their own dev-rooms anyway.
> Haskell and other Lisps may fit too (if they don't get their own
> room). We think with enough good projects our dev-room will be of
> interest.
> 
> Pj & Manolis
> 
> 
> 

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Amirouche Boubekki]

On 2018-08-30 20:20, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
> FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
> we were last year.
> 
>   http://icab.be/

About the specifically guix event, maybe it's a good time to organize
an install party. Also, let's be clear upfront if that the fringe event
can include those kind of work: poster, workshop, tutorial... anything
else to add?

> In addition to the Guix conference there is the possibility to have a
> dev-room at FOSDEM, but we need to apply for it. If the interest is as
> underwhelming as it is now I think we better forget about it. These
> things take effort to organize.
> 
> I think the 'minimalistic languages for big ideas' room has appeal to
> a wider audience and some of our projects fit really well. Anyone
> any project ideas? Or do we just forget about it? How about:
> 
> - Guile Guix build farm and Cuirass
> - Sheperd (Guile)
> 

Yes!

I posted previously a message on various Scheme related bulletin
boards, with not many responses except in Racket Group [0] that boils
down to "maybe we should do something".

[0] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/racket-users/MehPv0ugBI4

I created a page at http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019

Like I wrote previously I was thinking out loud when I emailed 
guile-user
about a scheme dev room, with the hope more people would answer the call
but it did not happen.

What about the following names for the room:

- big fringe ideas
- define
- dev off
- off tracks

This names or others might allow even more developers (whatever that 
means...)
to join the event from a broad horizon. Let's remember the event is Free 
and
Open source Software Developers' European Meeting.

European make me think that about art, culture and history.

So this makes me think that it's about free. Art can be free. You feel 
free to dev
an art form like mezangelle / code poetry / executable poetry.

European is not the USA nor Asia maybe there is something interesting to 
find
to make it interesting for people from Europe and abroad to come to 
FOSDEM.
What about social / ethno / anthroposcene?

Well, I speak a lot about art. That's the way I think of coding. It's a 
way
(albeit new) to express oneself. It's a form of art and also a way to 
empower
others to create art and communicate. code imo is about communication.

What do other people think about the name that room must be?

I believe the schemewiki.org is more convenient because registration
is not required.

Another thing I'd like to stress, is that last year most talks I read 
about
were driven by big companies and stuff. And all the counter developer 
culture
was spread in various rooms. Let's make a room for alternatives maybe? 
No so big
communities that have a lot of potential or might just be moon shots.

I have a book called 'Open Space Technology' it's about organizing
meetings and events. I will read skim over it tonight. And (try) provide
feedback about the latest advancement in psychohistory engineering.

I hope to read some of your ideas.


Here is another one: #zehefyu93 undo s:/3nce 4 a peacefu/ prosperity.

Just to come back on the righteous track, maybe one can invite speakers.

Let's get inspiration from racketcon 2018 and 2017 or clojureconj or 
whatever..

stop brainwashing,
start brainstorming,
and have fun.

One has 6 months to prepare.

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Amirouche Boubekki]

On 2018-08-30 21:38, Amirouche Boubekki wrote:

Open Space Technology (OST) is a method for organizing and running a 
meeting or multi-day conference, where participants have been invited in 
order to focus on a specific, important task or purpose. OST is a 
participant-driven process whose agenda is created by people attending. 
At the end of each OST meeting, a document is created summarizing the 
work of the group.

I already participated in such event as part of software craftman paris 
meetup and django cong 2012

> 
> I have a book called 'Open Space Technology' it's about organizing
> meetings and events. I will read skim over it tonight. And (try) 
> provide
> feedback about the latest advancement in psychohistory engineering.
> 

That book has a wikipedia page : 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Pjotr Prins]

Thanks Amirouche,

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 09:38:56PM +0200, Amirouche Boubekki wrote:
> On 2018-08-30 20:20, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
> > FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
> > we were last year.
> > 
> >   http://icab.be/
> 
> About the specifically guix event, maybe it's a good time to organize
> an install party. Also, let's be clear upfront if that the fringe event
> can include those kind of work: poster, workshop, tutorial... anything
> else to add?

I think we'll focus those days on the development effort. 

At FOSDEM it is possible to get a stand. That would be a good place to
help people start up. Or, if we get a dev-room, we can use it to
install stuff on the side. At least, make the offer.

Tutorials would fit there too.

> > In addition to the Guix conference there is the possibility to have a
> > dev-room at FOSDEM, but we need to apply for it. If the interest is as
> > underwhelming as it is now I think we better forget about it. These
> > things take effort to organize.
> > 
> > I think the 'minimalistic languages for big ideas' room has appeal to
> > a wider audience and some of our projects fit really well. Anyone
> > any project ideas? Or do we just forget about it? How about:
> > 
> > - Guile Guix build farm and Cuirass
> > - Sheperd (Guile)
> > 
> 
> Yes!
> 
> I posted previously a message on various Scheme related bulletin
> boards, with not many responses except in Racket Group [0] that boils
> down to "maybe we should do something".

Heh. Usually it is a small group of people that make it happen.

> [0] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/racket-users/MehPv0ugBI4
> 
> I created a page at http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019
> 
> Like I wrote previously I was thinking out loud when I emailed guile-user
> about a scheme dev room, with the hope more people would answer the call
> but it did not happen.
> 
> What about the following names for the room:
> 
> - big fringe ideas
> - define
> - dev off
> - off tracks
> 
> This names or others might allow even more developers (whatever that
> means...)

Hmmm. If you look at the examples of last year - you should - you can
see they go for *major* topics.

I think we can play the small languages card because it is like a bin
for everything that does not fit the big guns. Manolis and I chose
minimalistic languages because Scheme fits so well :)

> to join the event from a broad horizon. Let's remember the event is Free and
> Open source Software Developers' European Meeting.
> 
> European make me think that about art, culture and history.
> 
> So this makes me think that it's about free. Art can be free. You feel free
> to dev
> an art form like mezangelle / code poetry / executable poetry.
> 
> European is not the USA nor Asia maybe there is something interesting to
> find
> to make it interesting for people from Europe and abroad to come to FOSDEM.
> What about social / ethno / anthroposcene?
> 
> Well, I speak a lot about art. That's the way I think of coding. It's a way
> (albeit new) to express oneself. It's a form of art and also a way to
> empower
> others to create art and communicate. code imo is about communication.

I fully appreciate this :)

> What do other people think about the name that room must be?
>
> I believe the schemewiki.org is more convenient because registration
> is not required.
> 
> Another thing I'd like to stress, is that last year most talks I read about
> were driven by big companies and stuff. And all the counter developer
> culture
> was spread in various rooms. Let's make a room for alternatives maybe? No so
> big
> communities that have a lot of potential or might just be moon shots.

I think that is a very interesting approach.

> I have a book called 'Open Space Technology' it's about organizing
> meetings and events. I will read skim over it tonight. And (try) provide
> feedback about the latest advancement in psychohistory engineering.
> 
> I hope to read some of your ideas.
> 
> 
> Here is another one: #zehefyu93 undo s:/3nce 4 a peacefu/ prosperity.
> 
> Just to come back on the righteous track, maybe one can invite speakers.
> 
> Let's get inspiration from racketcon 2018 and 2017 or clojureconj or
> whatever..
> 
> stop brainwashing,
> start brainstorming,
> and have fun.

Fun +1

How about a dev-room for 'fun freedom programming languages'. It may get a
white space talk. Then, if I think of the work on MES and Guix it may
not be that great a fit. My point is that we should name the room that
will fit these projects

- MES reproducible from soucre bootstrap
- Guile Guix 
- Guile Cuirass
- Guile JIT
- Guile Sheperd
- Lua JIT

and then more...

Note that 'fun freedom programming languages' is already too long a
name for a devroom.

> One has 6 months to prepare.

But we only have 3 weeks to apply for a dev-room.

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Nils Gillmann]

Pjotr Prins transcribed 1.8K bytes:
> Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
> FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
> we were last year. 
> 
>   http://icab.be/

Is this directly before fosdem? I'd like to join this time if my
schedule allows it. Should we split off a thread to plan this?

> In addition to the Guix conference there is the possibility to have a
> dev-room at FOSDEM, but we need to apply for it. If the interest is as
> underwhelming as it is now I think we better forget about it. These
> things take effort to organize.
> 
> I think the 'minimalistic languages for big ideas' room has appeal to
> a wider audience and some of our projects fit really well. Anyone
> any project ideas? Or do we just forget about it? How about:
> 
> - Guile Guix build farm and Cuirass
> - Sheperd (Guile)
> 
> Everyone, please think with us.
> 
> Pj.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 11:23:19AM +0200, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > * Minimalistic Languages 
> > 
> > Every year FOSDEM allows for dev-rooms that need to appeal to a wider
> > audience and do not overlap with other dev-rooms. Programming
> > languages are popular and some of the large languages get their own,
> > such as Python and Rust. See the devrooms section on
> > 
> >   https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/
> > 
> > Manolis and I want to submit a plan for 'Minimalistic Languages - for
> > big ideas' dev-room.  Good examples that fit the room are 
> > 
> > - mes and reproducible builds
> > - Guile and Guix
> > - Guile JIT
> > - Lua JIT
> > - Lua for scriptable projects (example?)
> > 
> > Anyone anything to add to this list? More ideas is better.
> > 
> > Other languages that could fit are Forth, Smalltalk, Tcl, Rebol.
> > Provided they have a big idea.
> > 
> > Note that JVM languages and languages that compile to Javascript do
> > not fit the room. They probably have their own dev-rooms anyway.
> > Haskell and other Lisps may fit too (if they don't get their own
> > room). We think with enough good projects our dev-room will be of
> > interest.
> > 
> > Pj & Manolis
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Nils Gillmann <ng0@n0.is> writes:

> Pjotr Prins transcribed 1.8K bytes:
>> Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
>> FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
>> we were last year. 
>> 
>>   http://icab.be/
>
> Is this directly before fosdem? I'd like to join this time if my
> schedule allows it.

Yes, this is supposed to be on the two days before FOSDEM.  Planning
happens here:

   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019

-- 
Ricardo

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi,

> On 2018-08-30 20:20, Pjotr Prins wrote:
>> Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
>> FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
>> we were last year.
>>
>>   http://icab.be/
>
> About the specifically guix event, maybe it's a good time to organize
> an install party. Also, let's be clear upfront if that the fringe event
> can include those kind of work: poster, workshop, tutorial... anything
> else to add?

We haven’t really discussed the kind of event we would like to have, and
it’s true that we should find consensus on how to organize the event.

In my opinion, an install party may not be the best use of time for the
Guix meeting, because the target audience is Guix developers who
probably already have Guix installed.  (If not we can help them get it
installed via the installer script, but I would not want to focus too
much on this part.)

We haven’t discussed the kind of event we would like to have, so here
are some thoughts.  I think it would be a good idea to use this
opportunity to facilitate small group projects.  We could start by
having everyone think of a small Guix-related project, decide on 5 of
them (so that everyone has something they find interesting), then head
off into separate group work for half an hour with an option to extend
for another half hour (or moving to another group).

At the end of each session one person from each group shares with the
other attending people the results of their session.  (No more than a
few minutes each.)

Another fun thing we could do is a skill share session where people
volunteer to teach one thing to anyone who would like to listen.
(E.g. how to review patch submissions on Debbugs effectively; or how to
use git rebase without misery; using Geiser with Guix; how to contribute
translations; little IRC tricks; etc.)

This model of facilitating smaller sessions worked pretty well for the
Reproducible Builds summits in the past, and I think we could spend some
of the time doing this.  It ensures that people can collaborate
effectively and with purpose, and it gives everyone a chance to speak
and shape the meeting.

I would like to keep the number of talks to a minimum and leave out
introductory talks completely (that would be more suited for a general
FOSDEM audience).  Instead I’d like to see more active
self-organisation.

What do y’all think about this?

--
Ricardo

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Pjotr Prins]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 02:41:04PM +0200, Ricardo Wurmus wrote:
> I would like to keep the number of talks to a minimum and leave out
> introductory talks completely (that would be more suited for a general
> FOSDEM audience).  Instead I’d like to see more active
> self-organisation.
> 
> What do y’all think about this?

Yes, it is called an unconference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconference

A few talks each morning would be good though. 15-30 mins each.

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Amirouche Boubekki]

On 2018-08-31 11:35, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> Thanks Amirouche,
> 
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 09:38:56PM +0200, Amirouche Boubekki wrote:
>> On 2018-08-30 20:20, Pjotr Prins wrote:
>> > Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
>> > FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
>> > we were last year.
>> >
>> >   http://icab.be/
>> 
>> About the specifically guix event, maybe it's a good time to organize
>> an install party. Also, let's be clear upfront if that the fringe 
>> event
>> can include those kind of work: poster, workshop, tutorial... anything
>> else to add?
> 
> I think we'll focus those days on the development effort.

Alright!

> 
> At FOSDEM it is possible to get a stand. That would be a good place to
> help people start up. Or, if we get a dev-room, we can use it to
> install stuff on the side. At least, make the offer.
> 
> Tutorials would fit there too.
> 

> 
> Fun +1
> 

:]


> How about a dev-room for 'fun freedom programming languages'. It may 
> get a
> white space talk. Then, if I think of the work on MES and Guix it may
> not be that great a fit. My point is that we should name the room that
> will fit these projects
> 
> - MES reproducible from soucre bootstrap
> - Guile Guix
> - Guile Cuirass
> - Guile JIT
> - Guile Sheperd
> - Lua JIT
> 
> and then more...

I agree.

Is it ok if I rework http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019
so that it claims that there is a 'minimalistic language' devroom 
proposal
that will be made taking into account what people propose on that page?

Also, I would like to copy/paste the proposals from [0] to that wiki 
page so
that people see that there are actually more people interested in such a 
room.

[0] 
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#A_list_of_proposed_talks_for_a_GNU_Guile.2FGuix_track_.40FOSDEM_2019

> 
> Note that 'fun freedom programming languages' is already too long a
> name for a devroom.
> 

Ok

>> One has 6 months to prepare.
> 
> But we only have 3 weeks to apply for a dev-room.

ack

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi Ricardo,

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> skribis:

> We haven’t discussed the kind of event we would like to have, so here
> are some thoughts.  I think it would be a good idea to use this
> opportunity to facilitate small group projects.  We could start by
> having everyone think of a small Guix-related project, decide on 5 of
> them (so that everyone has something they find interesting), then head
> off into separate group work for half an hour with an option to extend
> for another half hour (or moving to another group).
>
> At the end of each session one person from each group shares with the
> other attending people the results of their session.  (No more than a
> few minutes each.)

I’m all for it!

Topics could be things like specific items of the 1.0 road map,
addressing specific usability issues, improving the Cuirass web UI,
socket activations and Fiberized Shepherd, etc.  Each topic should be
rather concrete, focused, and actionable IMO.

> Another fun thing we could do is a skill share session where people
> volunteer to teach one thing to anyone who would like to listen.
> (E.g. how to review patch submissions on Debbugs effectively; or how to
> use git rebase without misery; using Geiser with Guix; how to contribute
> translations; little IRC tricks; etc.)

Agreed, that’s an aspect of the R-B Summits that I enjoyed!  IIRC we had
these sessions after lunch, which was also a good away to awaken.  ;-)

> I would like to keep the number of talks to a minimum and leave out
> introductory talks completely (that would be more suited for a general
> FOSDEM audience).  Instead I’d like to see more active
> self-organisation.

I agree.

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[Efraim Flashner]

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On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 11:42:48AM +0200, Ricardo Wurmus wrote:
> 
> Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:
> 
> > Who wants to come to a separate 2 day GNU Guix event?
> >
> > That is the Thursday Jan 31st and/or Friday Feb 1st right before
> > FOSDEM. I.e., 4 days of hacker nirvana.
> 
> I plan to be there for the 2 days of Guix and the 2 FOSDEM days.
> 
> Please also let us know (privately, if you prefer) if your attendance
> would be dependent on having on-site childcare.
> 

I'm trying to convince my wife she should come for FOSDEM, not sure how
likely it's going to be.

Without checking with the wife, I should be good for at least one day of
GUIX hacking.

-- 
Efraim Flashner   <efraim@flashner.co.il>   אפרים פלשנר
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted

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Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[Leo Famulari]

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On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 11:23:43AM +0200, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> If you intend to come and/or want to speak please add your name and
> proposed title to the new page at
> 
>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018
> 
> Alternatively, reply here or mail me privately so we can keep a tally.

I will be there!

Please add my name to the list :) I don't have an account on
LibrePlanet.

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Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[Björn Höfling]

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On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 18:42:48 -0400
Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 11:23:43AM +0200, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > If you intend to come and/or want to speak please add your name and
> > proposed title to the new page at
> > 
> >   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018
> > 
> > Alternatively, reply here or mail me privately so we can keep a
> > tally.  
> 
> I will be there!
> 
> Please add my name to the list :) I don't have an account on
> LibrePlanet.

Hi Leo,

nice to hear.

as 2018 is already over, I suppose it was in your interest I added you
to the 2019 list:

https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#Attendees

:-)

Björn

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Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[Leo Famulari]

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On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 05:34:49AM +0200, Björn Höfling wrote:
> as 2018 is already over, I suppose it was in your interest I added you
> to the 2019 list:
> 
> https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#Attendees

Haha, yes, I would like to be on the list for 2019. And for 2018, too,
but that may be out of your control ;)

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Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[Pjotr Prins]

Just a gentle reminder. Please sign up if you haven't and you want to
attend. For the main room we have to cap at 35 people. We still have
room!

https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#Attendees

Note also it is possible to stay the night at ICAB. It is actually
pretty nice though the plumbing can be a bit noisy :)

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019 (ACTION: please register or mail)

[Pjotr Prins]

The announcement page is updated to the latest:

  https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019
 
Do register if you intend to come to the GNU Guix days. We will limit
the audience to 40 persons.

For those of you travelling from far away, there are many places you
can stay in Brussels. There are also rooms at the ICAB where we are
hosting the two day event. Some of us will stay there again and even
though it is not luxurious it is decent and pretty convenient.

Pj.

Re: GNU Guix Days before FOSDEM

[Chris Marusich]

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Hi Ludo, Pjotr, and others,

ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> Hello!
>
> Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> skribis:
>
>> If you intend to come and/or want to speak please add your name and
>> proposed title to the new page at
>>
>>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2018
>>
>> Alternatively, reply here or mail me privately so we can keep a tally.
>
> The real URL is:
>
>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#GNU_Guix_Days
>
> I copied and adjusted the text from last year’s page.
>
> Anyway, feel free to add your name if you would come, and ideas of talks
> or hacking sessions we may have, so we can start planning!

I'll be there - I expect it'll be even more awesome than last year!

-- 
Chris

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Re: GNU Guix Days before FOSDEM

[Pjotr Prins]

Dear all,

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 11:58:54AM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> The real URL is:
> 
>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#GNU_Guix_Days
> 
> I copied and adjusted the text from last year’s page.
> 
> Anyway, feel free to add your name if you would come, and ideas of talks
> or hacking sessions we may have, so we can start planning!
> 
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.

We have an exciting program for the minimalism devroom at FOSDEM, see 

  https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/track/minimalistic_languages/

We also have two GNU Guix days before FOSDEM. The idea is to break out
into working groups during those two days. I have added a few ideas
here:

  https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#Programme

Feel free to add your favourite topics! If you want to attend be sure
to add your name. We can't allow more than 40 people.

Pj.

Re: GNU Guix Days before FOSDEM

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello,

Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> skribis:

> We have an exciting program for the minimalism devroom at FOSDEM, see 
>
>   https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/track/minimalistic_languages/
>
> We also have two GNU Guix days before FOSDEM. The idea is to break out
> into working groups during those two days. I have added a few ideas
> here:
>
>   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#Programme
>
> Feel free to add your favourite topics! If you want to attend be sure
> to add your name. We can't allow more than 40 people.

Awesome, looking forward to this year’s FOSDEM!

Ludo’.

Re: GNU Guix Days before FOSDEM

[Pierre Neidhardt]

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Gotta say I love the program!

I was thinking that maybe I could present Next browser
(https://next.atlas.engineer), e.g. how to hack it and how it's implemented.
But I'm wondering if it's not too off topic.  The main link here is that it's
written and hackable in Lisp (Common Lisp).  What do you think?

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

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Re: GNU Guix Days before FOSDEM

[zimoun]

Dear,

At Paris' Guix' meeting in December, I really enjoyed the after lunch
session: quick demo about tools.
Janneke showed how they uses Emacs as Window Manager.
Ricardo showed some tricks with git-worktree.
Ludo showed guile-guix stuff---I do not remember well.

Reproducible idea? ;-)


See you there,
simon

Re: GNU Guix Days before FOSDEM

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> skribis:

> At Paris' Guix' meeting in December, I really enjoyed the after lunch
> session: quick demo about tools.
> Janneke showed how they uses Emacs as Window Manager.
> Ricardo showed some tricks with git-worktree.
> Ludo showed guile-guix stuff---I do not remember well.
>
> Reproducible idea? ;-)

Definitely.  That’s the so-called “skill share” session inspired by the
R-B Summit as you know Pierre ;-).  We could have one of these and Next
would be a good fit for that.

Ludo’.

Re: GNU Guix Days before FOSDEM

[Pierre Neidhardt]

Alrighty, I'll Next to the list then! :)