Command consistency: suggestion

Command consistency: suggestion

[Paul Jewell via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.]

Good morning!

It struck me this weekend that there is some difference in the command 
structure for the different guix sub commands. For example:

guix package --list-generations

and

guix system list-generations

guix package has everything as an flag, but guix system (and guix home) 
uses the concept of ACTION with options and arguments.

Perhaps the latter is clearer, and guix package should also follow the 
same model?

Re: Command consistency: suggestion

[Joshua Branson]

Paul Jewell via "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System
distribution." <guix-devel@gnu.org> writes:

> Good morning!
>
> It struck me this weekend that there is some difference in the command structure
> for the different guix sub commands. For example:
>
> guix package --list-generations
>
> and
>
> guix system list-generations
>
> guix package has everything as an flag, but guix system (and guix home) uses the
> concept of ACTION with options and arguments.
>
> Perhaps the latter is clearer, and guix package should also follow the same
> model?

+1

Re: Command consistency: suggestion

[Simon Tournier]

Hi,

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 at 12:22, Paul Jewell via "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." <guix-devel@gnu.org> wrote:

> guix package --list-generations
>
> and
>
> guix system list-generations
>
> guix package has everything as an flag, but guix system (and guix home) 
> uses the concept of ACTION with options and arguments.

Well, “guix package“ also uses action and it is possible to combine
them.  For an example about the issue it leads, see bug#50473 [1].

1: <http://issues.guix.gnu.org/issue/50473>

> Perhaps the latter is clearer, and guix package should also follow the 
> same model?

It is often discussed. :-) Well, ‘guix package’ uses SRFI-37 [2] and it
is possible to combine some action; as --switch-generation and
--delete-generations for instance.  Aside note that one transaction can
install and remove:

    guix package -i foo -r bar

which would not be possible when using single action.

The CLI of ‘guix package’ will not change, IMHO.  The mitigation of what
you are considering as an inconsistency is to have “alias“; guix search,
guix, install, guix remove, etc.

Last, we could imagine a Guix extension [3] and then (not checked :-))
maybe the user could opt in and install this extension for replacement.

2: <https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/SRFI_002d37.html>
3: <https://10years.guix.gnu.org/video/guix-repl-to-infinity-and-beyond>

Cheers,
simon

Re: Command consistency: suggestion

[Paul Jewell via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the input - comments at the bottom:

On 11/01/2023 22:51, Simon Tournier wrote:

> 
> It is often discussed. :-) Well, ‘guix package’ uses SRFI-37 [2] and it
> is possible to combine some action; as --switch-generation and
> --delete-generations for instance.  Aside note that one transaction can
> install and remove:
> 
>      guix package -i foo -r bar
> 
> which would not be possible when using single action.
> 
> The CLI of ‘guix package’ will not change, IMHO.  The mitigation of what
> you are considering as an inconsistency is to have “alias“; guix search,
> guix, install, guix remove, etc.
> 
> Last, we could imagine a Guix extension [3] and then (not checked :-))
> maybe the user could opt in and install this extension for replacement.
> 
> 2: <https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/SRFI_002d37.html>
> 3: <https://10years.guix.gnu.org/video/guix-repl-to-infinity-and-beyond>
> 
> Cheers,
> simon


I hadn't considered (or even known about) the multiple commands 
possibility. Maybe for consistency then guix system should also work the 
same way as guix package -

guix system --list-generations

This is how I tripped over this problem initially, because of course 
this doesn't work!

Doing it this way could also allow multiple actions in one line:

guix system --switch-generation ... --delete-generation ...

but I am reading into your comment that guix system does _not_ use 
SRFI-37, and therefore cannot combine actions. In other words, it would 
take more effort to implement this change?

I suppose for those of you who have been in guix for several years, this 
is no issue, since you are familiar with all the different options. to 
me, as a relative newcomer, it didn't feel so smooth. If nothing changes 
I shall not be resorting to aliases, but simply making sure I know the 
correct syntax to achieve what I want!

Best regards,
Paul

(who has finally got his Guix system laptop working as expected)

Re: Command consistency: suggestion

[zimoun]

Hi Paul,

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 18:59, Paul Jewell via "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." <guix-devel@gnu.org> wrote:

> guix system --switch-generation ... --delete-generation ...
>
> but I am reading into your comment that guix system does _not_ use 
> SRFI-37, and therefore cannot combine actions. In other words, it would 
> take more effort to implement this change?

Yes, it would be possible to replace “guix system <thing>” by “guix
system --<thing>”.  However, it will not be happen.

The CLI “guix system” and “guix package” will not change.  Although they
can be considered as inconsistent.

The cost of such change is too high.  Because it means update all the
documentation around and let the time for people to upgrade their
scripts, etc.

For example, consider discussion in #38529 [1] and give a look to the
lengthy thread [2].  The discussion was about a change for the CLI of
“guix environment”.  It ended with a new command line “guix shell” and a
deprecation and removal plan over several years for “guix environment”.

As I am trying to explain, the only viable solution is to implement a
Guix extension with another CLI.  The current one will not change, IMHO.

1: <http://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/CAE4v=phY+7CTKMf8Y3a9p4okfqtMGOWu9kd2Nu6oCJW8OsK3Lw@mail.gmail.com>
2: <https://yhetil.org/guix/CAE4v=phY+7CTKMf8Y3a9p4okfqtMGOWu9kd2Nu6oCJW8OsK3Lw@mail.gmail.com/#r>


> I suppose for those of you who have been in guix for several years, this 
> is no issue, since you are familiar with all the different options. to 
> me, as a relative newcomer, it didn't feel so smooth. If nothing changes 
> I shall not be resorting to aliases, but simply making sure I know the 
> correct syntax to achieve what I want!

Thanks for the feedback.  I agree that the split of “guix package/pull”
on one hand and “guix system/home/import” on the other hand can be
confusing at first.  Well, Guix is more than 10 years now and it is some
historical choices. :-)


Cheers,
simon