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In-Reply-To: <87y1h6qjxl.fsf@wmeyer.eu> (Wilko Meyer's message of "Sat, 16 Sep 2023 14:59:28 +0200") References: <87y1h6qjxl.fsf@wmeyer.eu> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 14:07:25 +0200 Message-ID: <875y3h1fnm.fsf@riseup.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=198.252.153.6; envelope-from=worldofgeese@riseup.net; helo=mx0.riseup.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 06:27:50 -0400 X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.70 X-Spam-Score: -9.70 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4028B54DF6 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx2.migadu.com X-TUID: Efert2N9Rogf Hello, I hope it's ok I'm replying to this email as a follow-up to decreasing the cognitive overhead for new users. I'm also brand new to the Guix community and ecosystem. I wanted to share a perspective from a user on a Lemmy instance who wrote why the Guix ecosystem was not friendly enough to meet them where they were, a person in their early twenties. I'd like to suggest approach their criticism with compassion and open-mindedness. @velox_vulnus writes at https://lemmy.ml/comment/4625080 > I don=E2=80=99t like the vibe of ageism against young people that is > associated with GNU. What is also frustrating is their reluctance to > improve their infrastructure. > This reason is kind of terrible, I admit, but they could choose to > move over to Matrix over IRC, but they choose to be willingly open to > spam over having a proper, documented chat channel. I am also > reluctant to use my personal mail, for the mailing list. Matrix gives > me that anonymity, without also having to geopardize on participation. > NixOS is on Matrix, and that=E2=80=99s why I like it. I know Matrix isn= =E2=80=99t > perfect, but it the better choice between any other messenger. This user could use an email address dedicated to Guix discussion but really I can only agree that sticking to IRC, which requires a lot of effort to keep a history log and more effort to host a bouncer makes contributing to synchronous discussions difficult. I, myself, am only active on the community-run Matrix server and another, less free, channel because the overhead is just too high.=20 > They could choose to remove non-Libre JS from GitLab, Sourcehut or > Gitea, or at least come with a new source hosting platform, but they > choose not to.=20 I also have a hard time with the insistence on the "Old Ways" as somehow more pure, more legitimate than the new. There's some sense of the expression, "You kids get off my lawn!" And the decentralized nature of sending Git patches by email, which I still have not ventured to try, makes it hard to *discover* Guix development in a single place. A user needs to go to any one of the mailing lists, pull the Git repo or browse Savannah or the issue frontend for bugs and new features they might be interested in, and generally have an idea of what they want to be looking for to find it. Discovery by serendipity is missing. When using the mailing list, even figuring out how to reply to the right thread here in Gnus is trying and I'm not even sure if I've done it right: people change the subject line, threads grow so large they become unmanageable; I had to make sure I CC'd the whole list instead of just reply to this mail's author. I still haven't figured out how to stick guix-devel in my Gnus home screen: my starting view is always empty and I have to remember the shortcut to get to the gigantic overview of every Gmane list (this isn't a cry for help). There's more to their post: I encourage folks to check it out. We have the FOSS technology to tackle a lot of these critiques and bring in a whole new wave of contributors. We have fully open Git forges and modern messaging protocols to make a brand new developer-friendly Guix a reality.