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Wed, 1 May 2024 11:29:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Ian Eure To: guix-devel Subject: Re: Concerns/questions around Software Heritage Archive In-Reply-To: <87frvfan0r.fsf@retrospec.tv> (Ian Eure's message of "Sat, 20 Apr 2024 11:48:20 -0700") References: <87il1mupco.fsf@meson> <87frvfan0r.fsf@retrospec.tv> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.2; emacs 29.3 Date: Wed, 01 May 2024 08:29:29 -0700 Message-ID: <875xvx3606.fsf@retrospec.tv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=103.168.172.157; envelope-from=ian@retrospec.tv; helo=fhigh6-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9C61522A26 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -10.06 X-Spam-Score: -10.06 X-TUID: NrmXhN6bv0KH Hello Guixers, It=E2=80=99s been another week with no response or movement on this. I=E2= =80=99m=20 disappointed that this situation seems to be getting treated so=20 lightly. Adhering to the terms of software licenses is=20 fundamental to the operation of the free software ecosystem; there=20 is no software freedom without it. It=E2=80=99s surprising that a pretty=20 clear-cut situation of creating derivative works of free software=20 in violation of their licenses would be shrugged off so easily. Whatever the Guix organization=E2=80=99s position is, I=E2=80=99m reaching = my=20 personal limit, and need to see some kind of positive movement on=20 this[1]. If Guix is going to continue to facilitate license=20 violations, I will have no choice but to remove my software from=20 it to defend them. =E2=80=94 Ian [1]: Personally, I would be satisfied with a per-package setting=20 which disables scheduling source for archiving by SWH. Seeing=20 this, or a committment to build this within a reasonable=20 timeframe, would allay my concerns. Ian Eure writes: > Hello, > > I=E2=80=99m following up on this since discussion since it=E2=80=99s been= a=20 > month and > I haven=E2=80=99t heard any updates. > > Summarizing the situation: > > - SHF has an opaque, difficult, and undocumented process for > handling name changes. I=E2=80=99s like to stress again that this is > *not* strictly a transgender issue (though it likely affects=20 > them > more, or in worse/different ways) -- it is a human respect=20 > issue. > Many, many more cisgender people change their name than > transgender people. > > - SHF gave their archive to HuggingFace, an "AI" company which=20 > is > generating derived works with no attribution or provenance, in > ways which violate the both licenses of the projects used to=20 > train > their model, and the SHF principles for LLMs. > > - HuggingFace wasn=E2=80=99t respecting requests to opt-out of their=20 > model. > > > On the first point, it sounds like SHF has made concrete=20 > progress to > improve[1], which is very good to hear. If SHF continues on=20 > this > course, I think the concern is resolved. > > On the third point, HuggingFace has begun honoring opt-out=20 > requests, > but is still very far behind. Also, they don=E2=80=99t remove code from= =20 > the > older versions of their model -- it remains there forever. This=20 > is > progress, but still, not great. > > On the second point, I have not seen any public statements=20 > indicating > that either SHF or HuggingFace even acknowledges the problem.=20 > SHF=E2=80=99s > most recent newsletter[2], published in April 2024 (after these > concerns came to light), continues to tout that StarCoder2 is=20 > "the > first AI model aligned with our principles," which appears to be > false. StarCoder2 includes both licensed and unlicensed code,=20 > and > HuggingFace=E2=80=99s own StarChat2 playground produces works derivative= =20 > of > this code, with no attribution or licensing information. There=20 > is > also no statement or position on the SHF news blog. Nor hsa > HuggingFace either fixed their tools, or made a statement. This=20 > is > still very much a live concern. > > I have a few questions: > > - Has Guix reached out to SHF to express these concerns / get a > response? > - Whether a public or private response, what would Guix consider=20 > to > be an acceptable response? An unacceptable respoinse? > - How long is Guix willing to wait for a response? > > Thanks, > > =E2=80=94 Ian > > [1]:=20 > https://cohost.org/arborelia/post/5273879-they-are-fixing-some > [2]: > https://www.softwareheritage.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Software-Heri= tage-2024-Vision-Milestones-Newsletter.pdf > > Ian Eure writes: > >> Hi Guixy people, >> >> I=E2=80=99d never heard of SWH before I started hacking on Guix last=20 >> fall, >> and >> it struck me as rather a good idea. However, I=E2=80=99ve seen some=20 >> things >> lately which have soured me on them. >> >> They appear to be using the archive to build LLMs: >> https://www.softwareheritage.org/2024/02/28/responsible-ai-with-starcode= r2/ >> >> I was also distressed to see how poorly they treated a=20 >> developer who >> wished to update their name: >> https://cohost.org/arborelia/post/4968198-the-software-heritag >> https://cohost.org/arborelia/post/5052044-the-software-heritag >> >> GPL=E2=80=99d software I=E2=80=99ve created has been packaged for Guix, = which I >> assume >> means it=E2=80=99s been included in SWH. While I=E2=80=99m dealing with= their=20 >> (IMO: >> unethical) opt-out process, I likely also need to stop new=20 >> copies >> from >> being uploaded again in the future. >> >> Is there a way to indicate, in a Guix package, that it should >> *never* >> be included in SWH? >> >> Is there a way to tell Guix to never download source from SWH? >> >> I want absolutely nothing to do with them. >> >> Thanks, >> >> =E2=80=94 Ian >> >