From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: znavko@disroot.org Subject: Deliver important Guix changes to users, please Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2019 11:25:10 +0000 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--=_RainLoop_995_457381816.1555241110" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49028) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hFdGO-000347-59 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 07:25:33 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hFdGM-0001L2-RL for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 07:25:32 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:38878) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hFdGM-0001Ii-77 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 07:25:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5042EE0F for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 13:25:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XgYJNy-Py9UI for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 13:25:17 +0200 (CEST) List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org ----=_RainLoop_995_457381816.1555241110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was reading this https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/log/?qt=3Dg= rep&q=3Dslim=0Aand found a record '2019-03-28 services: desktop: Switch t= o GDM'.=0AThis change had made users' configurations unworkable. Update t= o this commit could bring bothers.=0AI think it will be the best to have = some layer of informative support for updates. Like this:=0A=0A$ guix sys= tem --updates-available=0ACommit: 1 [two days ago]=0AChanges: some servic= es are available now=0A=0ACommit: 2=0AChanges: [red]Switch to GDM in %des= ktop-services. If your config is using %desktop-services, you need to che= ck manual pages.[/red]=0A=0ACommit: 3 (latest)=0AChanges: gc clear-genera= tions added=0A$ guix package --updates-available=3D1week=0A90 new package= s added.=0A15 packages updated.=0ANew packages:=0Aemacs-evil-lio, llgpl-l= icense, ...=0AChanged package:=0Aemacs 26.1 =3D> 26.2=0A...=0AThat will g= ive some knowledge that your cool config might be wrong after update to t= he latest commit, where dm was switched to gdm.=0A=0AI think news should = be divided to=0A- 'packages news' defining the period,=0A- and 'system ne= ws', the default period is from your last `guix system reconfigure config= .scm` or may be your last generation's date till now,=0A=0AAnd sure news = should be available from guix command.=0A=0AThere are tools for update gu= ix from substitute servers: local or Internet. There is much info in cgit= logs on gnu server... Want to read more with guix.=0A=0AWould this kind = of messages help people to bypass troubles in convenient way? ----=_RainLoop_995_457381816.1555241110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
= I was reading this https://git.savannah.g= nu.org/cgit/guix.git/log/?qt=3Dgrep&q=3Dslim
and found a record '2= 019-03-28 services: desktop: Switch to GDM'.
This change had made users' configurations unworkable. Update to this commit could bring both= ers.
I think it will be the best to have some layer of informative sup= port for updates. Like this:

$ guix system --updates-available
= Commit: 1 [two days ago]
Changes: some services are available now
<= br>Commit: 2
Changes: [red]Switch to GDM in %desktop-services. If your= config is using %desktop-services, you need to check manual pages.[/red]=

Commit: 3 (latest)
Changes: gc clear-generations added

$ guix package --updates-available=3D1week
90 new packages ad= ded.
15 packages updated.
New packages:
emacs-evil-lio, llgpl-li= cense, ...
Changed package:
= emacs 26.1 =3D> 26.2
...
=

That will give some knowledge that your cool config might be wron= g after update to the latest commit, where dm was switched to gdm.
I think news should be divided to
- 'packages news' defining the peri= od,
- and 'system news', the default period is from your last `guix sy= stem reconfigure config.scm` or may be your last generation's date till n= ow,

And sure news should be available from guix command.

Th= ere are tools for update guix from substitute servers: local or Internet.= There is much info in cgit logs on gnu server... Want to read more with = guix.

Would this kind of messages help people to bypass troubles i= n convenient way?
----=_RainLoop_995_457381816.1555241110-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: Deliver important Guix changes to users, please Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 14:56:39 +0200 Message-ID: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36155) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hG1AB-0001NY-6h for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 08:56:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: (znavko@disroot.org's message of "Sun, 14 Apr 2019 11:25:10 +0000") List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: znavko@disroot.org Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Hello, znavko@disroot.org skribis: > I think it will be the best to have some layer of informative support for= updates. Like this: > > $ guix system --updates-available > Commit: 1 [two days ago] > Changes: some services are available now > > Commit: 2 > Changes: [red]Switch to GDM in %desktop-services. If your config is using= %desktop-services, you need to check manual pages.[/red] > > Commit: 3 (latest) > Changes: gc clear-generations added > $ guix package --updates-available=3D1week > 90 new packages added. > 15 packages updated. > New packages: > emacs-evil-lio, llgpl-license, ... > Changed package: > emacs 26.1 =3D> 26.2 > ... > That will give some knowledge that your cool config might be wrong after = update to the latest commit, where dm was switched to gdm. > > I think news should be divided to > - 'packages news' defining the period, > - and 'system news', the default period is from your last `guix system re= configure config.scm` or may be your last generation's date till now, > > And sure news should be available from guix command. > > There are tools for update guix from substitute servers: local or Interne= t. There is much info in cgit logs on gnu server... Want to read more with = guix. > > Would this kind of messages help people to bypass troubles in convenient = way? =E2=80=98guix pull=E2=80=99 already provides high-level =E2=80=9Cpackage ne= ws=E2=80=9D, but I agree it=E2=80=99d be nice to have a way to convey =E2=80=9Csystem news=E2=80=9D and perhaps f= ree-form messages like Debian=E2=80=99s change logs. I suppose we could use some specially-formatted Git commits to pass messages to users. I=E2=80=99m afraid it would be hard to get those messag= es translated. Thoughts? Note that the GDM change could also have been addressed by fixing =E2=80=98modify-services=E2=80=99 to report about unmatched service types, = for example. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Amin Bandali Subject: Re: Deliver important Guix changes to users, please Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 23:55:23 -0400 Message-ID: <874l6ysixg.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33382) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGFBz-0002q1-HJ for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 23:55:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41594) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGFBv-0003JQ-W6 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 23:55:29 -0400 Received: from [2607:fea8:3b80:184::2] (port=41686 helo=localhost) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hGFBt-0005z8-Tp for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 23:55:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org Hi Ludo=E2=80=99, all, On 2019-04-15 2:56 PM, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: [...] > > =E2=80=98guix pull=E2=80=99 already provides high-level =E2=80=9Cpackage = news=E2=80=9D, but I agree it=E2=80=99d > be nice to have a way to convey =E2=80=9Csystem news=E2=80=9D and perhaps= free-form > messages like Debian=E2=80=99s change logs. > > I suppose we could use some specially-formatted Git commits to pass > messages to users. I=E2=80=99m afraid it would be hard to get those mess= ages > translated. > > Thoughts? > That=E2=80=99s an interesting idea. Another alternative, perhaps, could be having a =E2=80=9Cnews=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cbreaking changes=E2=80=9D secti= on/topic on the Guix blog, ideally with a dedicated atom feed, where one could follow changes with drastic change in system and/or package behaviour, or ones potentially requiring a manual intervention of sorts. Both Parabola and Hyperbola have that section on their website, with latest news shown on the front page. Thoughts? Best, amin From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: znavko@disroot.org Subject: Re: Deliver important Guix changes to users, please Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:21:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--=_RainLoop_654_704753795.1555435286" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36381) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGRmP-00031d-KV for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 13:21:59 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGRmN-0005Df-VY for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 13:21:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: =?utf-8?B?THVkb3ZpYyBDb3VydMOocw==?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org ----=_RainLoop_654_704753795.1555435286 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Ludovic!=0AIf commit has important meaning for all Guix users, it = must give a short news entry for the users that are now developers and do= not really read git logs.=0A=0AHow to perform this?=0AThere are git comm= it messages that may have some specific rule for containing news.=0AFor e= xample, your commit https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/commit/gnu= /services?id=3D305a732a0a19c5810aab401aa7d70eba02ac386b=0Amay have 'messa= ge' field like this:=0Anews: services: xorg: Add 'set-xorg-configuration'= .=0A=0APlacing 'news:' makes this message important for the guix informer= . It will react to the 'news:' messages.=0A=0AIf it is not possible to us= e the 'message field', then need to add news.log file into Guix git tree,= and there, developers may add important news with their commits.=0A=0AAd= ding 'news' prefix means this message will regard as message for delivery= to Guix users when they run `guix pull` or when they order news with com= mand like `guix news`.=0AThe set of these news assembled from commits (or= from the news.log that also may contain date field) for any defined peri= od will be displaying to Guix users.=0A=0A`guix news` may have default pe= riod from the last `guix pull` running till now, also may have the 'perio= d' option.=0A=0AI really think your distribution is effective and powerfu= l.=0AIf I'd be a bank's sysadmin, I use Guix, having my own troubles in m= y local network, having my local substitute server and special Guix confi= gurations on each work place This news function can help me to solve: to = update or not to update.=0ASeeing if there are sensitive changes that may= break bank's work places, I will check the manual first before update.= =0AApril 15, 2019 12:56 PM, "Ludovic Court=C3=A8s" wrote:=0A Hello,=0A=0Aznavko@disroot.org (mailto:znavko@di= sroot.org) skribis:=0A I think it will be the best to have some layer of = informative support for updates. Like this:=0A=0A$ guix system --updates-= available=0ACommit: 1 [two days ago]=0AChanges: some services are availab= le now=0A=0ACommit: 2=0AChanges: [red]Switch to GDM in %desktop-services.= If your config is using %desktop-services, you=0Aneed to check manual pa= ges.[/red]=0A=0ACommit: 3 (latest)=0AChanges: gc clear-generations added= =0A$ guix package --updates-available=3D1week=0A90 new packages added.=0A= 15 packages updated.=0ANew packages:=0Aemacs-evil-lio, llgpl-license, ...= =0AChanged package:=0Aemacs 26.1 =3D> 26.2=0A...=0AThat will give some kn= owledge that your cool config might be wrong after update to the latest= =0Acommit, where dm was switched to gdm.=0A=0AI think news should be divi= ded to=0A- 'packages news' defining the period,=0A- and 'system news', th= e default period is from your last `guix system reconfigure config.scm` o= r=0Amay be your last generation's date till now,=0A=0AAnd sure news shoul= d be available from guix command.=0A=0AThere are tools for update guix fr= om substitute servers: local or Internet. There is much info in=0Acgit lo= gs on gnu server... Want to read more with guix.=0A=0AWould this kind of = messages help people to bypass troubles in convenient way? =0A=0A=E2=80= =98guix pull=E2=80=99 already provides high-level =E2=80=9Cpackage news= =E2=80=9D, but I agree it=E2=80=99d=0Abe nice to have a way to convey =E2= =80=9Csystem news=E2=80=9D and perhaps free-form=0Amessages like Debian= =E2=80=99s change logs.=0A=0AI suppose we could use some specially-format= ted Git commits to pass=0Amessages to users. I=E2=80=99m afraid it would = be hard to get those messages=0Atranslated.=0A=0AThoughts?=0A=0ANote that= the GDM change could also have been addressed by fixing=0A=E2=80=98modif= y-services=E2=80=99 to report about unmatched service types, for example.= =0A=0AThanks,=0ALudo=E2=80=99. ----=_RainLoop_654_704753795.1555435286 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H= ello, Ludovic!
If commit has important meaning for all Guix users, it = must give a short news entry for the users that are now developers and do= not really read git logs.

How to perform this?
There are git commit messages that may have some specific rule for cont= aining news.
For example, your commit https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgi= t/guix.git/commit/gnu/services?id=3D305a732a0a19c5810aab401aa7d70eba02ac3= 86b
may have 'message' field like this:
news: serv= ices: xorg: Add 'set-xorg-configuration'.

Placing 'news:' makes th= is message important for the guix informer. It will react to the 'news:' = messages.

If it is not possible to use the 'message field', then n= eed to add news.log file into Guix git tree, and there, = developers may add important news with their commits.

Adding 'news= ' prefix means this message will regard as message for delivery to Guix u= sers when they run `guix pull` or when they order news with command like = `guix news`.
The set of these news assembled from commits (or from the= news.log that also may contain date field) for any defined period will b= e displaying to Guix users.

`guix news` may have default period fr= om the last `guix pull` running till now, also may have the 'period' opti= on.

I really think your distribution is effective and powerful.If I'd be a bank's sysadmin, I use Guix, having my own troubles in my lo= cal network, having my local substitute server and special Guix configura= tions on each work place This news function can help me to solve: to upda= te or not to update.
Seeing if there are sensitive changes that may br= eak bank's work places, I will check the manual first before update.
<= br>
April 15, 2019 12:56 PM, "Ludovic Court=C3=A8s" <ludo@gnu.= org> wrote:
Hello,

znavko@disroo= t.org skribis:
I think it will be the best to have so= me layer of informative support for updates. Like this:

$ guix sys= tem --updates-available
Commit: 1 [two days ago]
Changes: some serv= ices are available now

Commit: 2
Changes: [red]Switch to GDM in= %desktop-services. If your config is using %desktop-services, you
nee= d to check manual pages.[/red]

Commit: 3 (latest)
Changes: gc c= lear-generations added
$ guix package --updates-available=3D1week
9= 0 new packages added.
15 packages updated.
New packages:
emacs-e= vil-lio, llgpl-license, ...
Changed package:
emacs 26.1 =3D> 26.= 2
...
That will give some knowledge that your cool config might be = wrong after update to the latest
commit, where dm was switched to gdm.=

I think news should be divided to
- 'packages news' defining t= he period,
- and 'system news', the default period is from your last `= guix system reconfigure config.scm` or
may be your last generation's d= ate till now,

And sure news should be available from guix command.=

There are tools for update guix from substitute servers: local or= Internet. There is much info in
cgit logs on gnu server... Want to re= ad more with guix.

Would this kind of messages help people to bypa= ss troubles in convenient way?


=E2=80=98guix pull=E2= =80=99 already provides high-level =E2=80=9Cpackage news=E2=80=9D, but I = agree it=E2=80=99d
be nice to have a way to convey =E2=80=9Csystem new= s=E2=80=9D and perhaps free-form
messages like Debian=E2=80=99s change= logs.

I suppose we could use some specially-formatted Git commits= to pass
messages to users. I=E2=80=99m afraid it would be hard to get= those messages
translated.

Thoughts?

Note that the GDM = change could also have been addressed by fixing
=E2=80=98modify-servic= es=E2=80=99 to report about unmatched service types, for example.

= Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.
----=_RainLoop_654_704753795.1555435286-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Subject: Re: Deliver important Guix changes to users, please Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 20:19:26 +0200 Message-ID: <878sw9ak41.fsf@nckx> References: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48319) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGSgE-0003qb-27 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 14:19:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGSgC-00024c-2I for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 14:19:38 -0400 In-reply-to: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ludo', Guix, As your friendly neighbourhood update bot, I read a lot of change=20 logs. The worst are the one-log text file with =E2=80=99lol use git now,=20 change logs are obsolete!1=E2=80=99. Utterly clueless, distressingly=20 common. The best ones are usually called NEWS for some reason (go GNU!)=20 and are manually maintained, in sync with the code changes but not=20 forced on top of them; using git but not abusing it. Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > I suppose we could use some specially-formatted Git commits to=20 > pass > messages to users. I=E2=80=99m afraid it would be hard to get those=20 > messages > translated. I beg you not to do this, even as fodder for a friendly front end.=20 Just use a structured text file. Add dates. Affected packages.=20 Metadata. Hell, use sexps if you like. Fix typos/add caveats to=20 old news items when needed, not through errata commits. Don't=20 confuse git log with a log like some people confuse git blame with=20 comments. That is all, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHQEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXLYcrgAKCRANsP+IT1Vt eegzAQCD7LpSdVCqYeI4RoiqyefxmalCQ73CyiQpuCb4ZY5IJAD2Kn3Sn0kHKMS9 cv2/OdAfeWjNI00F2+TlRJUQlJB1Bg== =SwHz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Subject: Re: Deliver important Guix changes to users, please Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 20:27:05 +0200 Message-ID: <877ebtajra.fsf@nckx> References: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> <878sw9ak41.fsf@nckx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49685) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGSnZ-0005ff-RX for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 14:27:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGSnZ-0002Nj-2T for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 14:27:13 -0400 In-reply-to: <878sw9ak41.fsf@nckx> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote: > As your friendly neighbourhood update bot, I read a lot of=20 > change > logs. The worst are the one-log text file with =E2=80=99lol use git=20 > now, > change logs are obsolete!1=E2=80=99. Utterly clueless, distressingly=20 > common. (I know that's not exactly what you're suggesting, but we'd be=20 forcing ourselves into the same straightjacket for no clear=20 benefit.) (But hey, blockchain.) Kind regards, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXLYeeQAKCRANsP+IT1Vt eQBCAQCxxquVvDPqocR2OARMoiOe6zOxS5zFS8E1Y8sBYMVCLgEA0vy8G48Xu47U P1HtYSOthjeAU4xsJncpStm4CteOhAU= =BI59 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Brett Gilio Subject: Re: Deliver important Guix changes to users, please Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 14:15:32 -0500 Message-ID: <875zrdep7v.fsf@posteo.net> References: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> <874l6ysixg.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33481) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGTYc-0006w9-MO for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 15:15:51 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGTYb-0001xf-T3 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 15:15:50 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:37107) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGTYb-0001wo-JJ for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 15:15:49 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE7DB160060 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 21:15:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 44kFSx4V60z6tmM for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 21:15:45 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: <874l6ysixg.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org Amin Bandali writes: > Hi Ludo=E2=80=99, all, > > On 2019-04-15 2:56 PM, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > > [...] > >> >> =E2=80=98guix pull=E2=80=99 already provides high-level =E2=80=9Cpackage= news=E2=80=9D, but I agree it=E2=80=99d >> be nice to have a way to convey =E2=80=9Csystem news=E2=80=9D and perhap= s free-form >> messages like Debian=E2=80=99s change logs. >> >> I suppose we could use some specially-formatted Git commits to pass >> messages to users. I=E2=80=99m afraid it would be hard to get those mes= sages >> translated. >> >> Thoughts? >> > > That=E2=80=99s an interesting idea. Another alternative, perhaps, could = be > having a =E2=80=9Cnews=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cbreaking changes=E2=80=9D sec= tion/topic on the Guix blog, > ideally with a dedicated atom feed, where one could follow changes with > drastic change in system and/or package behaviour, or ones potentially > requiring a manual intervention of sorts. Both Parabola and Hyperbola > have that section on their website, with latest news shown on the front > page. > > Thoughts? > > Best, > amin I second this idea. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: Deliver important Guix changes to users, please Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 22:30:35 +0200 Message-ID: <87bm15d76c.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> <878sw9ak41.fsf@nckx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48632) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGUj4-0008Rp-Q7 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 16:30:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: <878sw9ak41.fsf@nckx> (Tobias Geerinckx-Rice's message of "Tue, 16 Apr 2019 20:19:26 +0200") List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Hello, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> I suppose we could use some specially-formatted Git commits to pass >> messages to users. I=E2=80=99m afraid it would be hard to get those >> messages >> translated. > > I beg you not to do this, even as fodder for a friendly front > end. Just use a structured text file. Add dates. Affected > packages. Metadata. Hell, use sexps if you like. Fix typos/add > caveats to old news items when needed, not through errata commits. > Don't confuse git log with a log like some people confuse git blame > with comments. The interesting part here is that commits are anchored in the version control history. Thus, you could easily tell whether a news item is relevant or not. If you store news separately, well I guess you could just write the commit to which the news item applies. Hmm, maybe you=E2=80=99re right! So we could have, say: .news/[0-9]+.news (every other file would be ignored) and then some sexp format, say: (news (entry (title "GDM is now the default") (commit "cabba9e") (body "Hey, GDM=E2=80=99s in the house!")) (entry (title "News are here") =E2=80=A6)) and we could maybe even have a PO file for this. How does that sound? (Probably post 1.0, but worth discussing.) Ludo=E2=80=99. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Subject: Re: Deliver important Guix changes to users, please Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 23:38:13 +0200 Message-ID: <874l6xaawq.fsf@nckx> References: <8736mjo29k.fsf@gnu.org> <878sw9ak41.fsf@nckx> <87bm15d76c.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38663) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGVma-0007bu-4N for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:38:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGVmW-0006c9-UL for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:38:22 -0400 In-reply-to: <87bm15d76c.fsf@gnu.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ludo', Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > Tobias Geerinckx-Rice skribis: > >> Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >>> I suppose we could use some specially-formatted Git commits to=20 >>> pass >>> messages to users. I=E2=80=99m afraid it would be hard to get those >>> messages >>> translated. >> >> I beg you not to do this, even as fodder for a friendly front >> end. Just use a structured text file. Add dates. Affected >> packages. Metadata. Hell, use sexps if you like. Fix=20 >> typos/add >> caveats to old news items when needed, not through errata=20 >> commits. >> Don't confuse git log with a log like some people confuse git=20 >> blame >> with comments. > > The interesting part here is that commits are anchored in the=20 > version > control history. Thus, you could easily tell whether a news=20 > item is > relevant or not. Oh, sure. To clarify: I'm pro storing the news items in the repository. In=20 fact I think it's a bad idea to keep it anywhere else (such as the=20 Web site, but by all means generate a pretty news feed from=20 guix.git on there). I just think it should be a regular file. Don't shove News=20 metadata into the commit message. When it makes sense, update the=20 News file(s) in the same commit as the code =E2=80=94 as is done for other= =20 documentation, which is what this is. Kind regards, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXLZLRQAKCRANsP+IT1Vt eWQTAP0flE6yYToj+EsGok8Q7FN5YNc+1+4hbB6Mb/bIZks0mgD+P6dzhEMADBrb x3Hb0jJ0gapByVTCqGbwr8MboWRf+gw= =o/sd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--