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d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:Date:Date:In-reply-to:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=SnfnF5id+tUMpPvYxiPET/npdaY05ZZG/pBqtJ4OFvw=; b=PsQdwv4B0KauZUgLfSZZwkp/qoIWI5z/FeGDqVyJaEn4SQennidigY/Wclt5U7tt +2S62ZR2jfNX+pzKu27/rTeDGi1HHuhByJnL7pJGRF03TV6+dUxCECijTDcfKOQCGnb OdsmxdVBGcJTSOifUkEts/gfEXa4rhJXJyEX4QAk= Received: from localhost (113-111-142-46.pool.kielnet.net [46.142.111.113]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1693693399900315.59838548410164; Sat, 2 Sep 2023 15:23:19 -0700 (PDT) References: <060dfa07107d0da36ebc7a9f094331163a8dd945.camel@gmail.com> <87wmxhi2pt.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.10.5; emacs 28.2 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Maxim Cournoyer Cc: Attila Lendvai , Liliana Marie Prikler , Katherine Cox-Buday , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2023 00:11:28 +0200 In-reply-to: <87wmxhi2pt.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <874jkccizv.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External Received-SPF: pass client-ip=136.143.184.58; envelope-from=rekado@elephly.net; helo=sender3-of-o58.zoho.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5C0FF606A7 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.43 X-Spam-Score: -2.43 X-TUID: EP+Yf+pM4Zh9 Maxim Cournoyer writes: > In the simplest case, it can be as simple as: > > $ ./pre-inst-env guix refresh -u some-package > [build it, try it, fix if needed] > $ ./etc/committer.scm > $ git send-email > > Since it's a single patch, there's no jumping through hoops to create > the original issue, and the auto-configured git will CC teams people > subscribed to the scope of your change (if there are any). Sadly the not-so-simple case is much more annoying. I like an email-based workflow, don=E2=80=99t get me wrong. At the same ti= me I=E2=80=99m really not a fan of Debbugs. It makes simple things more diffi= cult than they should be (send a cover letter, wait for your mail to pass the anti-spam measures, remember that you wanted to send a couple of patches, etc), and no amount of sugar coating (whether that be a different frontend like Mumi or a hell of a lot of client-side scripting) can overcome this inherent clunkiness. I=E2=80=99m no stranger to clunky or quirky interfaces. I put up with them because they unlock workflows and features or flexibility that would otherwise be unattainable. Emacs and Guix are great examples of quirky interfaces that brim with flexibility. I just think that Debbugs doesn=E2=80=99t make the cut. If only we can find a suitable baby sieve, I=E2=80=99d be happy to see the turbid bathwater drained. If Mumi and Debbugs went down the drain to reveal a new hassle-free web/email hybrid patch workflow I=E2=80=99d be ecstatic. --=20 Ricardo