From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id MBKJIEcOb2D15wAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 16:08:07 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id eJWqGkcOb2BpZwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 14:08:07 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20BA7AC59 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 16:08:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34584 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUVKH-0003cz-VA for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 10:08:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39594) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUVIV-0002hc-5m for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 10:06:15 -0400 Received: from zancanaro.com.au ([45.76.117.151]:52376) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUVIQ-0000qE-8Q for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 10:06:14 -0400 Received: by zancanaro.com.au (Postfix, from userid 116) id 6ADC133EF7; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 14:06:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jolteon (n175-37-174-100.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [175.37.174.100]) by zancanaro.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D48F333EF4; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 14:05:59 +0000 (UTC) References: <92b90b2aa6ed7d61beba38ff123b8bf1c0695234.camel@student.tugraz.at> <506adf4a0893b51bdc5cdbc02bbd4c34952279b2.camel@student.tugraz.at> <87y2dt4g87.fsf@zancanaro.id.au> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 27.2 From: Carlo Zancanaro To: Leo Prikler Subject: Re: A new wip-emacs branch In-reply-to: Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 00:05:58 +1000 Message-ID: <8735w0q3ax.fsf@zancanaro.id.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.76.117.151; envelope-from=carlo@zancanaro.id.au; helo=zancanaro.com.au X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." 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On Thu, Apr 08 2021, Leo Prikler wrote: > guix-emacs should still be loaded by site-start.el, which also=20 > initially loads your autoloads. Now that I've had more of a chance to play with it, you're right=20 about this. I'm not sure what I did earlier, but it loaded=20 properly just now. > What changes for "Guix in Emacs modifying Emacs", is that you'll=20 > probably have to reload the subdirs.el file before autoloading=20 > the packages. Ah, okay. I just played around with this, and it seems like the=20 sequence I now need is: $ guix install emacs-magit # shell command ... $ load subdirs # emacs command t $ guix-emacs-autoload-packages # emacs command (... list of autoload files ...) It also sees like I'm able to require the packages in Emacs after=20 the "load subdirs" step, as well, so in practice it's still only=20 two commands to make new Emacs packages loadable, it's just that=20 the second command has changed. =F0=9F=91=8D > Obviously, there are exceptions to this, that we can argue on a=20 > case by case basis, but to summarize, I don't think hardcoding=20 > paths throughout Emacs is a good idea. I think there are two different cases which are more clear-cut,=20 with a significant middle ground that's fuzzy, and using PATH just=20 ignores this distinction entirely. There are program uses that are=20 an implementation detail (e.g. the fact that dired uses ls), and=20 there are programs that a user is directly interacting with (e.g.=20 anything that I run in a shell). My thinking is that ideally the=20 former should use hard-coded paths, and the latter should come=20 from PATH. The tricky ones are things like geiser, or magit, where the Emacs=20 package is a wrapper around a program's functionality. These feel=20 like it's reasonable to go either way, but they are also the types=20 of packages that provide ways to easily change which program they=20 run (i.e. geiser-guile-binary and magit-git-executable for these=20 specific examples), so they could default to a hard-coded store=20 path because a user can easily change them if they want to use a=20 different version. Although, as you mentioned in a previous email, TRAMP may make=20 even those "clear-cut" cases a bit trickier. I'll admit I haven't=20 considered TRAMP much in my thinking. As a more general comment, I feel like Guix's wrappers are often=20 treated as "cheaper" than they are. It makes me sad that using=20 awesome as a window manager means that I have to have=20 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=3D GI_TYPELIB_PATH=3D before calls to external=20 programs to stop things from crashing (and working out that I=20 needed that was a pain in itself). I'll admit that this case with=20 Emacs and PATH seems less dangerous than the awesome wrapper, but=20 I'm wary of the unexpected problems that it might cause. Carlo