From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id QFG1GL/0GGLUWQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:24:47 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id KCtpEb/0GGJrNgAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:24:47 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6133E248DC for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:24:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:54956 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNcSb-0006nW-BT for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:24:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36474) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNcNG-0002Bq-Gi for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:19:14 -0500 Received: from out2.migadu.com ([188.165.223.204]:37548) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNcNE-00008A-2W for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:19:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 22:18:35 +0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nonconstructivism.com; s=key1; t=1645802340; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/iFj6JOpbMuz3BhrG45QGF0hGX0tBh4wggnwUKFo+BQ=; b=OpEiqPGyKlSEftIwFZnXWrW8xlLepm8anL7BnG3B91wBYTG8t/fzRzufe9NKW/+9pCbtq2 WOz0lXUFq2EaV3W5CP3vK/HlRhy4LncKHE8NbKG02MhXLjmnhIHI6o1ZOnjfAl80vmd5/N h9wjkd6RHenJzuQxRvt8YNpSrEDJh+M= Message-Id: <8735k7560k.fsf@nonconstructivism.com> To: zimoun Cc: Guix Devel Subject: Re: Update CoC adapted from upstream 2.1 (instead of 1.4) Gcc: nnimap+imap.migadu.de:sent.2022 X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. From: Blake Shaw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=188.165.223.204; envelope-from=blake@nonconstructivism.com; helo=out2.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1645802686; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=/iFj6JOpbMuz3BhrG45QGF0hGX0tBh4wggnwUKFo+BQ=; b=Ov7eHn72uprRsEi5fQK/Yr38QyJxg2CoEYyk+9NFXaZuAruexv+Kola3AKsrkorcRcqV/8 hpXBe8V4kLBX0qiC1CX7wqi0izKxxfOFtRJPyUIRDzaxEtqfsgBbu2RzM+cz6lieyTTxEY xLPIOKF4+H4UT1DrAD+7txOfmEg9ogUCdxg163qpsuBhz3gtnSVWaOAsanK0kvcndD//7G wrteteQIbVQNImearfhEq2uJqXy7S9E5+1eF7oswVUU4o2XmTj75UIWTToEauIScUEo3J4 cveu0L5qiofQygcfNQzJFj2wwq4OU3JyXp4Z979kaIfFDTLrDQ7MlT3q7Ufgkg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1645802686; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=lKQ5z1qv8bvfU1Iu5iYcUU/MWlXLUT0n+tL4MaRfEpPrRemsnbrNnMCdVkKYFbvZ1i+BX+ xOTrhsfS2m2G9lqYtBYidxdsLtMHNTKoe2bNEVIpESLebHJ2ZVZ90GR9/uJBhPzEP5iyvC yrs8XdysTo+0H9BFyI9x9LlKWqUMGkThZiXfLAWKdv59QEkjUmuxK6RPDb7akPkAd5L3nK qniQEUCbTB6i0PlefUi3rjowy2ZgD8+81xTpWdo4N3HnYDAc2QXLu+doGBLiKEzyO7yLhO xW9/JRN2Az1284B4n1goTZvRISNQcnsbdSbTwqtC3K9M9fjelc1HK7oNmjWb2w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=nonconstructivism.com header.s=key1 header.b=OpEiqPGy; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=nonconstructivism.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.13 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=nonconstructivism.com header.s=key1 header.b=OpEiqPGy; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=nonconstructivism.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6133E248DC X-Spam-Score: -8.13 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: sdoL+cokPI+I zimoun writes: My position remains unchanged: our codes of conduct should do everything possible to be as inclusive as and open to peoples of marginalized groups that are discriminated against. White cis men shouldn't be in charge of deciding whats best for these people. As far as I can see, not a single woman has come forward to say that proposed CoC amendments would benefit or protect them in any way. In fact the opposite is the case: two have come forward to say that this appears as ploy by men to debate their gender and experience. Why are white men so insistent on making changes that would supposedly increase inclusivity, despite those from marginalized backgrounds saying the opposite is the case here? Until a fem contributor comes forward to say that they feel changes to the current CoC would bring about some tangible protection to them, it seems to me that this discourse is a case of the dominant white cis males making changes to "protect women" without the consent of women, which has never fared well in history. So with that said, I think decisions concerning women should be left to women (all women!) to decide. ez, b -- “In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni”