From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:306:2d92::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id iGAwI/wm52Q+9wAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:46:36 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:306:2d92::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id UJ3bIvwm52QH1gAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:46:36 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F2E03E2D4 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:46:24 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=wmeyer.eu header.s=mail header.b=jiksdMfx; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=wmeyer.eu Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZ6uO-0002CO-W5; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 05:45:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZ6uN-0002C8-Ua for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 05:45:43 -0400 Received: from mail.wmeyer.eu ([95.216.196.112]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZ6uL-0000Hc-2h for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 05:45:43 -0400 References: DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wmeyer.eu; s=mail; t=1692870337; bh=zh/tfqn/5Lt5T2V+sYE3oFw9RHZ6AGg+QPO0GRaRUpw=; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to; b=jiksdMfxeXcDXQLhm/P2z7ffve0YLV0kpMfe3yH6F5ApUpDVmVTaJwbhT0U+Eja5s ifrHWgGFoB9e4u/TNjlCQJBZnoTa6RcM+mdSj/xkajiXU+x90a5nuMHGsHH2tRmSGi RlKQfnW8cYg6usAtMS5oOhkaRTeeFtdNFCG2oQLE= From: Wilko Meyer To: Katherine Cox-Buday Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:06:28 +0200 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <8735084vv2.fsf@wmeyer.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.216.196.112; envelope-from=w@wmeyer.eu; helo=mail.wmeyer.eu X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx2.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.73 X-Spam-Score: -8.73 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6F2E03E2D4 X-TUID: SfDu6RxjKxPj Hi Katherine, Katherine Cox-Buday writes: > That last part is what I wanted to discuss, because > that's the part > that prevents me from contributing more than I do, and I think there are > probably others whom are impacted by this. Yes, I'd actually love contributing more to Guix; but even with some familiariaty with a patch-based workflow; Guix, from my perspective, resides on a higher end of effort in terms of overhead/time spend until a patch series is ready. I tend to have plenty of half-way finished/not thoroughly tested stuff on my own (local) guix channel, but wouldn't want to submit "works for me"-ish patches soliciting the attention and time of reviewers that could probably be utilized better. I don't have a particular solution for this, but I think it's important to make contributions easier, as requiring a certain time privilege as it does now doesn't seem to be feasible. Another thing to consider may be the time until a patch is being discussed/merged. I don't have any metrics for Guix, but from my experience delayed responses are usually one of the major issues on why first-time contributors don't become recurring contributors in other projects. Nix seems to address this here[1] as well. Having a tag for first time contributions, which is what nixpkgs seem to have, in debbugs/on issues.guix.gnu.org could probably be beneficial to address this issue for Guix as well. > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I signed up on Savannah with the intention of applying= to be a > committer. > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Savannah closed my account one or two days later due t= o inactivity. Happened to me as well, never tried signing up again afterwards. > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I don't use the email-based patch workflow day-to-day,= so this is > another > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 area where I spend a lot of time trying to make sure I= 'm doing things > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 correctly. I feel like the advantages of a email-based workflow nowadays is more on the maintainer side of things (as managing large projects is easier using email/threaded discussions instead of the comment-based mode of discussions the MR/PR web based processes offer), as for a vast majority of potential contributors it seem to rather complicate things as most people seem to be rather used with said web-based workflow. > * It's OK to make lots of mistakes IMHO this is a pretty important point. > * We could support a managed web-based workflow This would, in addition to the email-based workflow, make at least that part of the contribution process more accessible for a larger crowd. As others have already mentioned in in this thread: sourcehut seems to be working into that direction. [1]: https://discourse.nixos.org/t/showing-first-time-contributors-some-lov= e/29105 Best Regards, Wilko Meyer