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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.47 X-Spam-Score: -1.47 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E49CA66846 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-TUID: SNX+Hx6V4GRF Hello, Ekaitz Zarraga skribis: > Second, grants work kind of well for specific tasks, but what happens > with the structural work? Is anybody actually getting paid for it? Should the project have the ability to pay people, I think it should first and foremost reward thankless tasks=E2=80=94from system administratio= n to boring but crucial packaging work. > Finally, grants push individuals to try to do things, but don't > encourage collective action (also the amounts are not high enough for > collective action). That's not necessarily bad, but those individual > projects also drain energy from those who are structural to > Guix. Patches have to be reviewed, and commits need to be merged. I once proposed having a space where those applying for NLnet grants for a Guix-related project could discuss and coordinate, and to arrange so that =E2=80=9Cthe project=E2=80=9D knows who=E2=80=99s applying for what. = That would still be individual grants, but it would be a step towards collective action, as you write. Now, the problem is that we cannot force applicants to follow that path; they might have good reasons to not discuss openly about their plans or event to avoid the extra burden of coordinating with others. > I think free software projects use to be precarious and we are too > used to that. However, I think we should try to break with that image, > and try to push for funding collectively, so we can cover structural > costs: people and machines. On one hand, I like the good vibes that come from collective funding: see Spritely or the Reproducible Builds project, for instance. OTOH, I sympathize with those concerned with the negative effects this could have on the many excluded from said funding; a further concern is the administrative burden with actually employing people. Besides, note that it is becoming easier to work on Guix as part of one=E2=80=99s paid job as Guix becomes more useful (quite a few people at t= he Guix Days, myself included, were on a =E2=80=9Cbusiness trip=E2=80=9D!). T= hat=E2=80=99s another option to keep in mind, even though it=E2=80=99s again focusing on individu= als. What we do need and can have is a strong non-profit to cover costs like machines, events, internships. That=E2=80=99s the goal of Guix Foundation = and it=E2=80=99s been helping a lot in these areas, but it desperately needs lo= ve and energy. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.