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[207.236.123.199]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x16sm792480qtp.56.2021.10.13.18.26.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 13 Oct 2021 18:26:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Timothy Sample Subject: Re: Merging the =?utf-8?B?4oCcYmluYXJ54oCd?= NPM importer? References: <87mto8zpll.fsf@airmail.cc> <87zgs3829p.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsttuys3.fsf@dustycloud.org> <877deo473m.fsf@gmail.com> <87a6jeayuf.fsf@ngyro.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2021 21:26:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87a6jeayuf.fsf@ngyro.com> (Timothy Sample's message of "Tue, 12 Oct 2021 14:21:12 -0400") Message-ID: <871r4opfbf.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::832; envelope-from=maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x832.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1634174828; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=zVql7aucl9u14sKLZkBZ8DPFqojypwj2/Tvo7wd3uuY=; b=oIe4SYUENAoNhn619/QiWwIvInrskfBb68LN9AxYkD4lgcNTqLLyKaPm3KO4BajrA5gw0M rAc3zsXi3zZegHn7gg7aFaw7lnFhbbjmpmjTtVHfl/Ce7QoQWEplXWRkLuo6nuaa27hm3E mRqurBQPF2tahzTe6IAtj3czTC0wxxD7kqMiChXb2uyXEje8+Cbq71x1BZbKq2zet4Zvzc fiCQiul/IdzH+UGmDpdvUyeZf+RPrr15PvNch++qPlDkWedcoyb+AWSdvP55xJ2bSw+5ST jvfajsScqo1aaRWHoyGH5K/cR0ld0TRdSHXHv98DNq+lxO+3WxWXjPeJKS64Cg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1634174828; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=gRn0u3Z0VNFP6YH9aKiMntzGjtt/n7q6P71vMADv7WIOizD+pS3CuZi5b4zMJWLJjeOqnb 4Ddq8SnFOEravtedtxAqVkPsoQfzHyUqikSqInYDuS+EISxiIj9YqW4O/65Uz2XjQegI/P UyHU6UHIdlgiX4nQ/5OufMnkr3YxHiS+0VH6nne8hZtwNyt2HCzh0X05t4GMpMGudeiSHT I8nzUClh9Ts++12Zs0iDArjf3y5tQX0apgzErq6LzYyBHKJD9WJyr6wPODgMsD/ehZZKKf MZPGlt/z/TjsAL2sRiW+kyUWLgVdB4iDnX7k5+TBQRr0PLvg7CIkgjrUGM023g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=NuRPOCgX; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.32 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=NuRPOCgX; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 94B21FE6A X-Spam-Score: -0.32 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: LkxC6+7aSG/d Hello Timothy, Timothy Sample writes: > Hi Maxim, > > Maxim Cournoyer writes: > >> I'm not too keen on having an importer which produces packages that >> can't be included in Guix proper -- it seems a double standard to me. >> I'd personally prefer to have such tool maintained outside of Guix >> proper. > > The reason I called it the =E2=80=9CNPM Binary Importer=E2=80=9D was to s= care people > away, because its results are rather limited. Maybe I went too far, > though, and people are too scared! :) > > It=E2=80=99s more accurately the =E2=80=9CHalf-finished NPM Importer=E2= =80=9D. It produces > packages that are missing two important parts: the dependencies needed > to build the package; and the upstream source code location. Getting > the dependencies is quite hard, since NPM doesn=E2=80=99t differentiate b= etween > build tools, testing frameworks, linters, scripts for publishing, etc. > This results in a ton of circular dependencies since the publishing > scripts use linters, and the linters use build tools, and the build > tools use publishing scripts, etc., etc. We would need some sort of > block list to get around this (e.g., we should just skip over stuff like > ESLint). Getting the source code can be tricky, too. Normally, NPM > packages have a =E2=80=9Crepository=E2=80=9D field that points to the sou= rce code > repository. However, in some cases, packages use a monorepo setup where > many packages are produced from one repository. This complicates the > correspondence between source code repositories and NPM packages. > > What the =E2=80=9Cbinary=E2=80=9D importer does is ignore all the =E2=80= =9Cdevelopment=E2=80=9D > dependencies, use the NPM tarball as the package source, and set the > =E2=80=98#:build?=E2=80=99 argument to false. This is a hack to get the = half-finished > importer to produce working (even if unpleasant) packages. > > I write all this to make it clear that the fact the importer produces > =E2=80=9Cbinary=E2=80=9D packages is not the result of a =E2=80=9Cwho car= es about free software > or source code?=E2=80=9D attitude! :) It just seemed like a reasonable > checkpoint between nothing and a Guix-ready NPM importer. > > I think keeping the half-finished importer alive by including it in Guix > might be a good strategy. It might help us work =E2=80=93 collectively = =E2=80=93 > towards the goal of providing a clean, freedom respecting collection of > JavaScript packages in Guix. > > Of course, I do respect and understand your concerns. After all, I > called it the =E2=80=9Cbinary=E2=80=9D importer to be as scary as possibl= e! In the end, > it=E2=80=99s up to you and the other maintainers =E2=80=93 hopefully my e= xplanations are > helpful. Thanks for sharing all this background information! It helped a lot to refine my current understanding of where this importer came from and where it's heading; I must confess I hadn't reviewed the importer details and the idea I had of it was mostly attributable to its scary name :-). In light of your message though, I think it may be fine to have the importer in Guix as long as it is labeled as a technology preview, with its current shortcomings documented :-). This may make it more accessible and allow to refine it faster. Thanks again, Maxim