From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id eHZAMJLWL2KV4wAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:58:10 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id EMLnLJLWL2KjlQAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:58:10 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 803524A411 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:58:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:55800 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nTuZl-0007Pl-OK for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:58:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56014) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nTuZb-0007PW-Uq for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:57:59 -0400 Received: from smtp.polymtl.ca ([132.207.4.11]:49102) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nTuZY-0005vc-Vc for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:57:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (modemcable094.169-200-24.mc.videotron.ca [24.200.169.94]) by smtp.polymtl.ca (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 22ENvirw005651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:57:49 -0400 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp.polymtl.ca 22ENvirw005651 To: Pjotr Prins , Ryan Prior Cc: Guix Devel Subject: Re: Building a software toolchain that works In-Reply-To: <20220314202659.oftyvymu7tjiycba@thebird.nl> References: <20220314202659.oftyvymu7tjiycba@thebird.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:57:43 -0400 Message-ID: <871qz4axzc.fsf@laura> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Poly-FromMTA: (modemcable094.169-200-24.mc.videotron.ca [24.200.169.94]) at Mon, 14 Mar 2022 23:57:44 +0000 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.207.4.11; envelope-from=olivier.dion@polymtl.ca; helo=smtp.polymtl.ca X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" Reply-to: Olivier Dion From: Olivier Dion via "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647302290; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=a5RttWs2J5Jy3QGm+UPni0jsrzrz9JjSoXUibs4dd5U=; b=EZXTeI5S9+G56pu/8OYab+6U2WSOOsZpXusIzvDJHwheq/5lP/ndOYm3qPIl+v4JFY9u7E psD2aM7E02CRbmyaN2kAKgO5zsGZA1vFqI8Z815QLJjDbgF7Ty7xCOUZ9zNZEIe/Au34wZ Do4eMcUi0VzS5ULuqo59RJ/dW9JS6L6RQ1WXlCEGsFOL9WAoxBSC/Zw5skngIbHRFz2JSW ch5NkpUVXb5oyN3ihlRh191Lhz9Gscjw6dsvSmcfAJoXbpuaWwjAze7yi3pJUsMC3YdBiE Ybn3clckCpYsJELkrKeFmRgUsi3FpF3mPqKiK9AidKW/NTVDgTRlcVoj0DYyUw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647302290; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=YqLtXWmH2EhPHzDpJOyDTgk2k07bUjNRIdgOLpTQ/uINRz/N0L4I3JgeokgEHeH4bGnrU4 NOA7ziT+qf8vt69sLfqX4eO4rTRsGZrtv8lMdOpQri2NdBo4eauIvrjDpJIEGcMxyEDx1X VaOQJYQ+yf/IJR1eDiiN/0GXZ1wlbw48kbFgp1/Ffqk07JWhGTc281EnYhj/gsPf4JBgGW 92AXNgSf16ZAOxxAWb2V6Jzs2l5A+qWVAPXq8ZF3Y9CgsDgRMDA5xH+S9OXQIyBz9546y8 TlUDMuXf1TVLLxfjLKltofm14onb3AoCQam3NbcemJv6Ixf03sbZp4zf9gYT4A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.67 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 803524A411 X-Spam-Score: -3.67 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: lfJOelSj8xmR On Mon, 14 Mar 2022, Pjotr Prins wrote: > I can't believe that mess that is Rust cargo and npm packages today, > for example. And they start out as the next new thing to solve all > problems! If they would only would have used Guix to create a coherent > build system... > > And then I spent a week's effort on a CMake build system, and CMake is > an ugly piece ofp work. I just kept thinking that if Guix was > leveraged you could have a really simple build generator written in > Lisp... Now wouldn't that be nice! I dream of a build system 100% in Scheme that integrates itself natively with Guix. No more Makefile, nor auto-nighmares or bloated package managers that like NPM. Just a simple self describing Scheme record in a human readable file that is easily trackabled in Git. I've made something like this for a project of mine. Generating a Makefile from a description of the projects using Scheme. However, I believe now that the true power would be to have everything done in Scheme instead. On another note, what I find fascinating is why Guix and Nix are not more used in academic papers. A quick search on the Compendex database gives me only a handful of papers referencing Guix, mostly all from Ludovic. I simply can't understand this. You have a way to factor out the toolchain from the equation of your research's resuls -- making it trivial to reproduce -- and yet every papers that I read is using some Ubuntu LTS or Fedora as their build and testing environment. The same applies for embedded systems. Why waste time with Yocto, Elbe, Buildroot anymore? -- Olivier Dion Polymtl