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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Guix Devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1629802004; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=qIU0Qz01rIXzT5rurcdRkXKM6poctbSfn7DBDnSExx0=; b=qfjtpNmD9XDLKIcxKJwv4vDYxQprqIAM9DTqSp3WJGpVUUj7Rc3KbDBR8evYCZLpWGJzz+ n5VRuHEHbS3jnYINW93RoyNAe5O+2lNqO03XKnw7re2++OjzSpKuGtv/OVmU/QMu/yxbQs IxoriJcfoZ14JFlPIHDy8zEICeM3vPJqQuldsjWBFZhrufTlQvnXZhMbgmjZQFoOCUPQJn VF/MiB1XQfuviEjba7fPlYwsEgoejmFcW4HvBwVUzCUjIwBK1gwCnD0oIXIxthtEIkvsfk EXQxYH66AGXr1Au5WemtOXcAIcn3bCgTXhPBqUpJlUdQtaT33d7tvkv9Y771jw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1629802004; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=e9DXdNdUmCYqskeOiGdK0WFp0+xc5axOM6pOilXYUp3hPUfixiM784FQAWziBgpQqg6P9T tLRkem16RQBzgeNKsy+elEO5CaeDvRTlKNVY8htsAuLOdscWTiFHZIqkHwKvmUUWYEek/1 WUtKOvYWZ5tNKwzZw2JwMqxn+JL8tMgYpaK/WKP8ptQBpLOECSR6DN67h6kVvElb+bgIWk b1L9VaV98yncUxKV5pk/x1qgBaP1SekBGj1XOaVQV31y/gM8HoCWqL4lAZFU8NtMz+X9/E Rz1H4LJV+tHK0qSJHV9w0mKSqJWDfhA8ZkIgdtvJdKXTqjAQAJnSiWlOP9ArFA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Tb9IDHap; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Tb9IDHap; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: DD080529E X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: g2XWI5BBHqex Hi Philip, On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 13:30, Philip McGrath wro= te: > On 8/23/21 11:38 AM, zimoun wrote: >> The bootstrap path of Racket in Guix is not clear to me. I miss if a >> Racket interpreter or compiler in its binary format is used (as >> Haskell for instance) or if all is compiled from source using tools >> already bootstrapped. Anyway, I miss what you would like bootstrap? >> If you mean a trusted seed in order to start a package collection, you >> could use the current Guix binaires---as a starting point. > > I wrote a long comment at the top of gnu/packages/racket.scm that=20 > explains the current state of affairs. (For anyone unfamiliar with the=20 > Guix source tree:=20 > ) Oh sorry! I did incorrectly my homework=E2=80=A6 although I remember the discussion with Ludo when you submitted the patch set. :-) > In brief, Racket is bootstrapped from source using only a C=20 > compiler---including bootstrapping Racket's fork of Chez Scheme without=20 > an existing Chez Scheme compiler---with one exception: the "expander"=20 > subsystem (which implements the reader, module system, and macro=20 > expander) is implemented in Racket, and the older C implementation was=20 > completely replaced as of Racket 7.0. (One of the motivations was to fix= =20 > many problems with the old implementation.) For bootstrapping, an=20 > intermediate representation as a "schemified" linklet is checked into=20 > the Racket source repository. Thanks for explaining. All is clear. > This impact is mitigated because, by design, the intermediate=20 > representation is "human-readable and -editable Scheme code".=20 > Anecdotally, when I read diffs of changes to the Racket repository, I=20 > sometimes read tens of lines of code before I realize that I'm looking=20 > at the generated version of the file, not the source. So the expander is= =20 > not bootstrappable in the most rigorous sense, but it is readily auditabl= e. > > If someone wanted to tie the knot, the task would be to use an existing=20 > bootstappable language to write a minimal expander that can expand the=20 > canonical Racket implementation: if your output is identical to the=20 > checked-in generated files, you've succeeded. (Using Guile could avoid=20 > the heavy maintenance burden of the old C expander implementation, and=20 > indeed you could write just enough of an adapter to load the Racket=20 > source files into Guile, which is the technique Racket uses to bootstrap= =20 > the Chez Scheme compiler.) I expect Racket would welcome a contribution=20 > along those lines; it just hasn't been a priority for anyone yet. Guile everywhere! ;-) Thanks again the details. Cheers, simon