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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1641922859; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=DX/1qG+GhnJgrPXY34PZcmeq1+49oVp6Qy/UU4R8/Jo=; b=f8nZj4idBmQ6HYDkMGb7aIgSmABewc7B3xgk1JgoYJLSBk37lMWtUBzo88CHV14aYjOLGE Fs3cjZDHMEjAtTeP/xigWfgA/C4epoVKJym6kJGFGAmcLfOSiCYhx8Iw1ZigeuPhaebNPT gg0EnAlDi7/x76Qt0PUYQmWoz9EBAtKc2AybWkBKJizM5RTe17irWODO94LyITpxbwznB+ ZE392Isu6aoWgErhKApURSW/9y18jNAjrqkS3MNX62NWp9QswIJIFU0sqtPNwE0KDOmjIn K3Vp7KzPhBLSZlWeymHYkDQFHZ20S6raJnMxU5L7tsSBJohUZ3qn2XlmXY38Fw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1641922859; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=JDfi68b8nk1iun2bDbaj+WBu42ot+M5Wj4R+IqKmDPCeQvI0QdeVvDCMYGqVmZpfxXM6Oe Hz5r/qP247p5GBZv3/PUDccXDpCk1iCKj9Cobr/xwbrDzJ2OXkEZrAjIV1zMlVgxwHsXZL pJOABEHhCxsOisK83gfJy33BM5VACQ8MeEmiV3MvGqNMNI+A/Fyh4cAIhRKZ45KVrjW14q JfHXbgh/ijD81dHDepeN8F/hHyDSrpVPd7WcIEc6NVZXcNcon8T0ToHWZFvW9w00ZdxKHu RO68jWZKcAfYm04vhaclE39mteFWUINByZg/VBr2Iqn4NeVfx0utkB+YvWbsDA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CUIMQnIQ; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.02 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CUIMQnIQ; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CF9D8264DD X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Bv9AcpD290eB Hi Tobias, all, On Tue, 11 Jan 2022 at 16:30, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote: > Guix cares about community very much. Many of us care very little > for wikis, having seen how they attract much outdated and > incorrect information and spam. Wikis are high-maintenance. I agree with these words=E2=80=A6 > I must say, the proponents of wikis have done an exceptionally > poor job of representing them. Yet we're supposed to be convinced > that we're missing countless valuable contributions by people who > can't be bothered to send a mail. =E2=80=A6but as I tried to explain elsewhere [1], different interpretations= for the aim of this =E2=80=9CCookbook=E2=80=9D seems floating around. - cathedral, as it is today - bazaar, as a wiki could be Obviously, it is possible to participate to the cathedral; clone, tweak, drop a patch, done. All by email. But somehow, it could appears a bit rigid at first. Imagine, (generic) you are fighting with new paradigm, your distro is not working as expected, you do not understand what=E2=80=99s going on, after some reading here or there, and several attempts, you succeed! Now, one advice you found was not working exactly and you adapted it a bit. I am doubtful that you will read how to contribute and finally send a patch. I think, $ git log --format=3D"%an" -- doc/guix-cookbook.texi \ | sort | uniq -c | sort -n makes my point. ;-) Do not take me wrong, I am also on this side (accurate and maintained documentation via review; something that might last) but it appears that some people would also like half-baked poorly-maintained documentation as a wiki could provide. There is no conflict, IMHO, because the goals are different. For instance, EmacsWiki [2] saved me a lot of time, although information there is often half-baked or poorly-maintained and back in time, it helped me to then jump to the Emacs Manual, Emacs Lisp Manual and others. Similarly for ArchWiki [3]. It is not because I would not personally contribute in feeding this that this kind of material cannot be worth. :-) Therefore, IMHO, the question is becoming: how to gather this kind of material? Because we have to admit that the rigid Cookbook via email patches of texi file is a limited success for this bazaar goal. An official wiki is one idea; it raises where hosts it? How maintains the infra? etc. I proposed [1] a Planet, other proposed =E2=80=99Awesome list=E2=80=99, and= from my experience, it could be a first step to collect. Again, where hosts it? How maintain it? Other said, do we, as a project, officially support such documentation? For sure, with one big warning that the material can be outdated, even wrong. Or do we consider that we have already enough in our plate and many place can host unofficial such documentation? I am fine with both. :-) Last, for sure, I am not convinced that officially hosting a wiki would automagically feed it after the buzz of novelty and the hosting cost is not negligible. That=E2=80=99s why I think an intermediary as Planet or Aw= esome list is better; for the current resource we have at hand. 1: 2: 3: Cheers, simon