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Tue, 05 Sep 2023 07:01:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier To: Ricardo Wurmus , paul Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? In-Reply-To: <87msy3bl4v.fsf@elephly.net> References: <871qfsuvad.fsf@gmail.com> <8e74c4ac-a6f3-9127-7e13-593a2eb70432@gmail.com> <87a5ubqxm6.fsf@gmail.com> <877cp8965f.fsf@xelera.eu> <87pm30tu3z.fsf@riseup.net> <87zg23bss4.fsf@elephly.net> <87msy3bl4v.fsf@elephly.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2023 10:43:47 +0200 Message-ID: <86sf7tui0s.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::335; envelope-from=zimon.toutoune@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x335.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -4 X-Spam_score: -0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=1.592, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 305213A36B X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.64 X-Spam-Score: -5.64 X-TUID: gT0HgEEKLfu4 Hi Ricardo, all, On Sun, 03 Sep 2023 at 12:31, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > As the original author of Mumi I want it to become obsolete as it > clearly has outlived its usefulness and better alternatives exist. The > way to get there is to add the replacement to Guix so we can host it. I am seeing the gap that Mumi fills with a tiny larger angle. For sure, the initial aim of Mumi is to improve the situation with the default web-interface of the Debbugs instance of the project GNU. In addition, the collateral effect is an improvement for *all* the GNU projects using this Debbugs instance. Currently, Mumi displays all issues, e.g., an old one about the Emacs project: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/12345 The fact that the GNU project is not currently exploiting the Mumi front-end is another story but I have always considered Mumi as a way to improve first the Guix experience and then also the whole GNU project. > I won=E2=80=99t contribute to Mumi any more. Giving it up doesn=E2=80=99= t hurt my > feelings. I=E2=80=99d be glad to see it gone. For what my opinion is worth, I think that Mumi is very valuable. Yes it has many annoyances and even considering these, it highly improves the situation. As far as I know, the GNU project is not planning to move from their Debbugs instance. The Guix project is free to move to something else. And although this thread is now large, it only collects ideas =E2=80=93 tha= t=E2=80=99s good! =E2=80=93 however we have nothing concrete for making a decision to s= witch from the GNU Debbugs instance. Well, I do not want to cut people=E2=80=99s motivation, I roughly estimate to several months (maybe more than one year) between the start of evaluations of alternatives and the effective switch. Waiting that, it appears to me worth to still fix the Mumi annoyances Maybe SourceHut is one alternative. However, from my experience, PS: First time I am sending something to SourceHut... and I am a bit confused by the interface. Or how to send patches. https://todo.sr.ht/~whereiseveryone/toys/18 and after the hour I have spent this morning, it is not clear how to fetch messages, or how to read message without the web-interface, and how to send messages without the web-frontend, etc. all that are not straightforward neither. Well, I do not also speak about the lack of Message-ID =E2=80=93 it does not jump to my eyes =E2=80=93 and building a t= ool around emails without Message-ID is just a bad decision. Yes, Debbugs is not prefect. Mumi neither. SourceHut will not magically fix our annoyances and this tool also brings many drawbacks. Therefore, I still need to be convinced by concrete examples that SourceHut provides a better experience. For now, my feelings are mixed=E2= =80=A6 Well, I just strongly hope SourceHut fits our bill =E2=80=93 =C2=ABI hope= =C2=BB is not =C2=ABI know=C2=BB nor =C2=ABI am convinced=C2=BB. Thank you contributors to Mumi! Ricardo Wurmus Arun Isaac Ludovic Court=C3=A8s Tobias Geerinckx-Rice jgart I hope you will continue to improve our annoyances. :-) Cheers, simon