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Wed, 20 Jul 2022 17:02:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Munyoki Kilyungi To: Csepp Cc: jgart , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Guix Without Scheme References: <20220720005325.GB24891@gac> <87v8rrn5ie.fsf@riseup.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 00:02:20 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87v8rrn5ie.fsf@riseup.net> (Csepp's message of "Wed, 20 Jul 2022 17:45:51 +0200") Message-ID: <86r12fpkf7.fsf@bonfacemunyoki.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.27; envelope-from=me@bonfacemunyoki.com; helo=out3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1658350967; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=b55j3O7h9HPIunEJSnqUsyQOr9bjSX24wLYPD5PpNpc=; b=h5iO3osWkXeBiCnyDfTWFuBZ8aYCFB0M5RqOkdE4VJA80p0m+PWhs0Stj2ljC8k8p3pSGU MvfmrweuLvl+W1VDkI3D0hNS0JuSJld86qsIwvtlqR9qyOizgSGcQgZ6sbC358p6FB3Mrc KiK55iVJN5n4WK7JJqmEyTeSmQ68wkcmsUU+7Od3L88pQjnLTMPpur1a7Zz8PEjY7hMCL8 Kx01+5377gPApwcywc57cHN31JmarVlFsSO+6JXYVhgqaQy3nGd4REVCYpqC7BL6b8l7g6 /r4TbTECy3EkQJTeTyaJq6mpDaWpUx38dHkpU8O1UCa0PxPDHOkQgUL0SdB2Cw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1658350967; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=UP9l05y/mCtianyF7cx+aO0AR8LjgkgNDx8DLM/Juodw4QyA9y1ABhPVG8WYBNGMConfM8 xZWlRNU/IuB8hvCC+6qXqsKsiuw98h7aT/pNYfy8UHsID4jzuiLWnVof417hK04kFNi9M5 HtcyRzgw6BemFqFeQ776ATU2hRXJIgYO2dTevhBZg7ksTgBbHSlSP1bQfKGVOQQjE74+a7 VU62IGvSZqo7E/qai6guCNN45rM22FT8qBLmt+CZCA75y58Ehf0az1dCz8MO/RRBGw2L6K KOVGluWHE7Jl6EaGKZ2BQKRFS1vBR8iz6zyeeKmdjfByIva/aWyodCwC8x6mrg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=bonfacemunyoki.com header.s=fm1 header.b="j bRTQUO"; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=VPQo91jA; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.07 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=bonfacemunyoki.com header.s=fm1 header.b="j bRTQUO"; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=VPQo91jA; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 450F918492 X-Spam-Score: 0.07 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 7guBwaaejexB --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Csepp! Csepp anaandika: > jgart writes: > >> Hi Guixers, >> >> I just wanted to share this presentation that Singpolyma gave titled "Gu= ix Without Scheme": >> >> https://archive.org/details/singpolyma-guix-without-scheme >> >> Through the course of the presentation, singpolyma demos how to build >> a Guix package with javascript as well as lua. >> >> What do people think of leveraging Guile's compiler tower to write Guix >> packages in lua, javascript, python, and other languages?=20 >> >> nix perhaps? Might be meta fun to write a Guix package in a guile implem= ented nix frontend. >> >> Maybe we should think of Scheme as just one frontend among many to Guile= 's compiler tower? >> >> Is it a future goal for Guix to fully support this unique feature? >> >> all best, >> >> jgart > > I like Lua but this doesn't seem to be a wise use of developer > resources. Those languages have subtle differences that would surface > if this idea was pursued further. The most obvious one: Scheme is very > permissive with what you can name your variables, while all the others > basically follow C's restrictions. How would you map those names? It > is not possible to create a bijection between sets of different > cardinality. And then we haven't gotten into how the module systems are > different or how record systems aren't even standardized among Schemes. > > If you want to experiment with mixing languages, Racket is likely a > better starting point. > Using other languages, if simple enough, would be a nice way to have developers who fear the parens dip their toe in GNU Guix using Guile. Nice for intro workshops/talks - maybe. That said - and from a very biased view - I think Scheme is simple enough for anyone, and outside hobby or exploratory programming, should be primarily used for GNU Guix hacking. Perhaps, over time that may change. =2D-=20 (Life is like a pencil that will surely run out, but will leave the beautiful writing of life.) 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