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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1657200363; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=MrE4YQLjsJAPQAVb4s+HVD7cz6wmqI28ez+rSBJYi/M=; b=YebDkxg+WE0uE6QLu6Zz7h1QJRlYyvk6wnKJux6eIyHSz93wEh57k+jrO5yEofr2QJCjRu Gg8hNJB225f6DyVlokKySmssYj04qvUu2E0BBDV7Fll9YLOWUh6gP4Wz6meZlghfzXtCkJ 04zoKuJiRu9nXyuRubRmShpHVG2L/Re0sWOPbwOTwiM6VWuhcfeQmfJyfeRgimWeoxlp0T oyj9QtGblGaVgFPNrJYj/4K38wxktr1jETGAlV/rlsphhLnmLdQZKl4kLGksf/aRLFhMVI UNfl/jr0gUq2ULCBfL/vUgi6uVMqgxSayRpHqzN46kxXb0GEuVs71cSsDDDNiQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1657200363; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=U7FUAp6xh8kTcj2B4k0+/LqN+J0Gxry21sjI1jFHWmlOSLHhEG9WRt8s4aUYJxdLxOAhDv K+MM5m/MhrxBRwx5Mrth5Q4NqpDlPZswj5jgMZiH+BK61YlxlBPZLj/fwOXXqr7ehj3ZkC Mxj62KKMJes+m4pIk6i4z0jr6eLjhUFpM56hSnv0Z63PQuOSmEtR85+t7my4fQV2WjLm4Q og3svcXholj5SbzCduOLoiRJCXETiQjRnp7UQ8nbzQN9LKAtoP/JS+XKIj4MQ1Q3wFXkqG C6ZcG6+oKC48PZ/2r06F7vcIgEIbpFirnZr0ox0w4AHbf1sVWTnmKaYQegLg6w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Jsu4ZAHM; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.25 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Jsu4ZAHM; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C1C2E2FC49 X-Spam-Score: -7.25 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: /1hfV69AAtBI Hi, On Thu, 07 Jul 2022 at 09:57, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > (Nitpick: it *is* stateless, in the sense that it only depends on Guix > itself, not on the state of the machine where it is being run.) I will not argue about what we call state here. :-) > =E2=80=98--export-manifest=E2=80=99 emits a comment (shown above) explain= ing that the > manifest is symbolic and that one needs channel info to replicate the > exact same environment. I do not understand what you mean by =C2=ABsymbolic=C2=BB here. > It is a departure from traditional package managers, and admittedly > surprising to newcomers. However, my take on this is that we should be > very upfront about symbolic vs. exact reproducibility. We would muddy > the waters if we gave version strings the same importance as in other > tools, when we know that a version string means very little. I miss about what you disagree because =C2=ABWe would muddy the waters if we gave version strings the same importance as in other tools, when we know that a version string means very little.=C2=BB is the exact root of my comment. By returning, (specifications->manifest (list "python" "python-numpy")) or (specifications->manifest (list "python@3.8" "python-numpy@1.17")) depending on the current Guix is just doing that: =C2=ABmuddy the waters=C2= =BB. Instead, I think =E2=80=99--export-manifest=E2=80=99 should *always* return: (specifications->manifest (list "python" "python-numpy")) without =E2=80=99@x.y.z=E2=80=99. Other said, be in agreement with the com= ment: ;; This is "symbolic": it only specifies ;; package names. To reproduce the exact same profile, you also need to ;; capture the channels being used, as returned by "guix describe". and not sometimes =E2=80=99package name=E2=80=99 and sometimes =E2=80=99pac= kage name + version=E2=80=99; as if version string has a special meaning. To be honest, I do not understand: on one hand, we are advocating that version string is not enough for reproducibility. On the other hand, we output version string with a comment =C2=ABversion string is useless, you need a channel file for replicating=C2=BB. Since I am missing a point, could you explain more? Cheers, simon