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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1654422958; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=TWZHiEkDL9TUkHAwVmMsrUAGd8to040uvBKIs3hc8RQ=; b=ta31SDTV7NoZsgjIOg0mBWWU+A7GuCYk8v5+Tceb//GZ74MSDfQ7z3j+W2Ncu8LZ9ez6X3 +cWmfstHl84caqjzpXDsDla5G0bwxoC7xtdO1BC2WOF/yW/2K3KmmBC/mtGFnt2hr6hHOO /UbLCpMaMy7qhAym/z43g409wnprK91MdFlZxO97zvweZ7/eTn1WYXWRIyp6L/3sI8FCgc SIHW7AbhV0I4mv3hAtbinsHZq6ywAfbKTCZhMjWQoe8pJuN3+eIJZZAz7Bph+XZyfku5Ox 0/qteqUMP0wC4kbHvXEVFEkRcInmr4PzVpmW+cBahDU8mpyihtfyw7WmDpwy0w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1654422958; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=LeuraiYwb4n7L41mfQI9rv5YskdLg7vU29PtjMfJiNAt7fkG6gAiOE6rLGDFbpAD9wKomT AvxOsedq/9/AsoVelZupm686qQIYixqtPTpWJuxWWizDR4cZOJt2cIiKWKXtVclv2Bo4MM Ho7DWv+gWU09F3R10sV6fnGcKlAF4dlSDBcpUsOs0cDZIpxxZle+Xa2QdPq8WF49psCAQm /6tqLrJ075OqmBSiu6k9G2oeGB7bbyg9TGprFBgy/yFIdotIVJtWf625Xi8YNG036ZIrZy +kbvyeUSNh3v4zIOcJTFIanxP/1yKzuq6uilsu8MfGuxQb3juNzvi+8lDHF2Qg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CutbyKJS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.51 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CutbyKJS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8C07932E84 X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: PLOmdBplCz4A Hi, On Sat, 04 Jun 2022 at 09:39, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > IMHO all users must understand that for > their projects (profiles) to be reproducible and versioned the /only/ > way is to keep channels.scm and manifests.scm in a VCS (i.e. git) I agree. This practise is the target but as a matter of fact, we are not there yet. From what I daily see, scientists are starting to integrate Git in their workflow, they are also starting to provide how they generate their computational environment, but some are slower than others. ;-) >> That=E2=80=99s why, something like =E2=80=9Crepack=E2=80=9D is missing. = As a user, I should be >> able to do >> >> guix package --switch-generation=3D1 >> >> whatever the sysadmin collects about the old generations and whatever I >> saved using some external tools. > > ...except you wish to reproduce the project on another machine, or > /gnu/store is lost or corrupted for some reason On the same machine, by the same user. Consider that the project is 2 years long, you start to install some packages and run an analysis, 4 months later you receive other data and you analyse using an updated version of tools, 2 months later you want to reanalyse all and you use another updated version of tools=E2=80=A6 and you have some differences. Therefore, you want to roll-back to the first generation and see=E2=80=A6 B= ah you cannot because it is many months old and the sysadmin runs =E2=80=9Cgui= x gc -d 3m=E2=80=9D to save some space. Such roll-back should be possible =E2=80=93 a full rebuild the profile thou= gh. I mean, let GC as usual but also =E2=80=9Crepack=E2=80=9C the necessary inf= ormation. Then, if you wish to run on another machine, you can always run =E2=80=99export-manifest=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=99export-channels=E2=80=99 fro= m this =E2=80=9Crepack=E2=80=9D. I agree that tracking channels.scm and manaifest.scm is the good practise. And I am trying to promote this very hard. :-) However, we are often saying: do not worry, you can always travel back in time (implicitly assuming Guix have the information :-)). And this assumption is often missed which leads to uncomfortable situations, not to say maybe some scientists are sometime blaming sysadmin and/or Guix promoter. :-) Somehow my point is: The time scale of a project is often very different to the time scale of GC on a machine. Most of the time, the old generations are useless and it is fine to remove them. But for few rare cases, they are necessary =E2=80=93 and it is impossible to know in advance= or to know the range of time. These few exceptions do not justify to keep all these old generations; it does not make sense because the =E2=80=9Cenvironmental costs=E2=80=9D (storage, electricity, etc.). Today,= the only way is a manual tracking when it could be nice to have a more automatic feature; similarly as =E2=80=99export-manifest=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=99export= -channels=E2=80=99, they are not necessary per se because the good practise is track the files using Git, but they are very handy in many situations. :-) Cheers, simon