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In-Reply-To: <3214a171-dcd5-335c-6339-df5dd0f5bfc6@gmail.com> References: <871qfsuvad.fsf@gmail.com> <8e74c4ac-a6f3-9127-7e13-593a2eb70432@gmail.com> <87a5ubqxm6.fsf@gmail.com> <861qfcvhw2.fsf@gmail.com> <3214a171-dcd5-335c-6339-df5dd0f5bfc6@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 01:55:31 +0200 Message-ID: <86il8op43w.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::135; envelope-from=zimon.toutoune@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x135.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 732C63EB44 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.03 X-Spam-Score: -6.03 X-TUID: Hiuo1A6DqycZ Hi Katherine, I am fully aligned with the Survey proposal; at some past Guix Days I remember discussing a kind of survey =C3=A1 la Haskell or Emacs surveys. Well, such appears to me very informative to better know how to improve, from user to contributor. On Tue, 05 Sep 2023 at 12:00, Katherine Cox-Buday wrote: > 1. A list of the issues > 2. How we'll measure that they're issues > 3. How we'll measure improvement against the issues > 4. How we'll address the issues > > So often in my long career I've worked with organizations/people that=20 > really want to skip to (5): implement something. > > Implement a vertically-integrated solution to gather feedback against=20 > reality: yes. Jump straight to the "final solution" with all the details= =20 > managed: no. Since I am French and it is easier for me to comment about my disagreements than the converse. ;-) In my career, I have seen the converse: spending plenty of time cooking all the details of the plan and then being bitten by implementation =E2=80=9Cdetails=E2=80=9D that were impossible to predict beforehand. Instead, I often see the incremental improvements more productive. Especially when people are volunteers for their contributions and so their motivation is variable and non-fungible. I think we have #1. a list of issues; some points discussed in this thread could be reported as bugs. #4. an hope for addressing some of them using a plan (scripts, fix guix edit, etc.) As we discussed earlier, the =E2=80=99measures=E2=80=99 are the difficult p= art and there is too many bias that it=E2=80=99s almost impossible to measure. At best, = the number of contributors (#2) and some stats from some survey (#3) would provide some indicators. Maybe I misread, I think we have a consensus about the issues and about the concrete actionable next steps, no? a. Prepare a survey b. Report bugs about =E2=80=9Cguix style=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cguix edit= =E2=80=9D (and I am probably missing other reported in the thread :-)) c. Look to Build Coordinator and QA [A,B] (ask Chris?) and try to extract what this CI does. Well, from what my opinion is worth here. A: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/build-coordinator.git B: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/qa-frontpage.git/ [...] > So are we unintentionally filtering out contributions from people with=20 > compromised executive functioning? For all the rest, I mostly agree with your words. Cheers, simon