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Sat, 19 Aug 2023 07:57:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier To: Distopico , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: A Forum for Guix Users In-Reply-To: <87bkg9wigq.fsf@riseup.net> References: <87bkg9wigq.fsf@riseup.net> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 12:59:10 +0200 Message-ID: <86a5unz4ap.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42d; envelope-from=zimon.toutoune@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -4 X-Spam_score: -0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=1.592, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx0.migadu.com X-Spam-Score: -9.57 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5A2354EC43 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.57 X-TUID: poGrrqGAlGQy Hi, On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 06:45, Distopico wrote: > - Forum: A good place for beginner an non-technical user (I guess all > Guix user require some technical knowledge), also a good place for > create history and user documentation/solutions. > - Mailing List: For contributors, developers, and more long-terms > questions, as well more advanced users. Please do not take me wrong because my message could appear =E2=80=9Celitis= t=E2=80=9D. I hope I have a track record about welcoming newcomers, answering on help-guix mailing and helping on various other forums or media. =20 Well, GNU Guix is currently a technical project and any user will have their hand dirty. If you are non-technical and not able to deal with emails, then sadly GNU Guix is not for you. My point of view is: a forum will not help in a better way the newcomers. Moreover, the maintenance cost of such forum is not free. You speak about history but most forums are ephemeral because they are based on kid-cool web tech, and to my knowledge, mailing list preserves much better the history. Even, most of the help provided by answering to a question is also ephemeral. I am very doubtful about the value in history for most of the question/answers. As an exercise, for instance, none of any messages from December 2016 [1] seems helpful for today troubles. And you can pick any other past months. If we want to help newcomer, then, IMHO, the best is to extract the rare =E2=80=9Cuniversal-enough=E2=80=9D qu= estion/answer and pinpoint them =E2=80=93 for instance, improve the documentation (manual= or cookbook). Maybe, I am wrong=E2=80=A6 My point is that forum + mailing lists will scatter where people who answer have to look. And you cannot know in advance if the question will become a long-term question. In that rare case, I do not speak about the discoverability of such configuration using forum + mailing lists. That=E2=80=99s said, some people are not going via =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=80= =9D media for reporting difficulties and asking help. Instead, they are using stuff like Reddit, Stackoverflow and the like. And as experimented users, in to order to strengthen the community, we should roam on these platforms (quickly answer and/or friendly redirect to =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=80=9D medi= a if needed). Last, I advocate for using the most sober technology for exchanging pieces of text and not require the most modern hardware and/or some resource-hungry software (client and server) that many forums implicitly require. An example: try to follow Discourse (e.g., https://discuss.ocaml.org) forum with few-featured Web-browser or even try to deal with it with intermittent internet connection. 1: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2016-12/threads.html > on the other hand I think that the mailing lists create a more conducive > environment for debate than the forum itself, but again, for new user a > Forum is a better place or to find quick solutions which on Irc are hard > to find. I concur at some points. However, I disagree with the proposal that a new forum would be the answer. From my point of view, we should keep the =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=80=9D interaction as it is using mailing lists and= we need to, time to time, roam on already existing well-known forums instead of creating yet another dedicated space. (Here, I speak about GNU Guix. My answer is different for specific usage of Guix in some context as in scientific research because, although hacker and researcher communities can be joined as it had been done in 10 Years of Guix [2], these both communities have subtle differences. :-)) 2: 10years.guix.gnu.org/ Cheers, simon