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Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.0 Subject: Re: Concerns/questions around Software Heritage Archive Content-Language: en-US To: Simon Tournier , guix-devel References: <87il1mupco.fsf@meson> <87a5mvyjl4.fsf@gmail.com> <7881988a-6a95-f0d8-8d6b-6794651c9d2c@fannys.me> <87msqvwun8.fsf@gmail.com> From: MSavoritias In-Reply-To: <87msqvwun8.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.95.52.48; envelope-from=email@msavoritias.me; helo=mail.webarch.email X-Spam_score_int: -23 X-Spam_score: -2.4 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.684, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.20 X-Spam-Score: -6.20 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B752166012 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-TUID: QVWur/DjaMyQ On 3/18/24 15:12, Simon Tournier wrote: > Hi MSavoritias, > > On lun., 18 mars 2024 at 13:47, MSavoritias wrote: > > >> As advice for the future when somebody says a concern or wish they have, >> your first statement shouldn't be "but its legal" because that >> completely dismisses any constructive discussion that could be done. > Again, I am not arguing about “legal” something. Instead, I am pointing > that this wish does not match the principles of “free software”. > > If you accept that the software you create is “free software” then you > cannot complain if this “free software” is used in some contexts that > you consider unethical. > > That’s the double sword of “free software”. > > Do I consider LLMs as something unethical? I think yes: most AI appears > to me unethical but that’s another story (rooting my arguments in > arguments about energy [2,3,4]). > > 2: https://social.sciences.re/@zimoun/112082437445032973 > 3: https://social.sciences.re/@zimoun/112039562095800532 > 4: https://social.sciences.re/@zimoun/112038609631116527 > Yes you are. The argument that you can do what you want with Free Software is based around a licence which is a legal construct of states. I think you have misunderstood that here we are talking about the social rules of being a decent group of human beings and respect somebody else's wishes. >> What is in question here is whether Software Heritage respects people >> enough to do the right thing and respect their wishes without getting >> lawyers/legal involved. > Again, this is an incorrect frame, IMHO. Software Heritage (SWH) do the > things you granted them to do. SWH respects the “ethical” definition of > “free software”. You are bringing the legal argument again. The argument that you can do what you want with Free Software is based around a licence which is a legal construct of states. I think you have misunderstood that here we are talking about the social rules of being a decent group of human beings and respect somebody else's wishes. In this case somebody asks for something so if SFH is a good member of our community they should do that. Otherwise they are not a good member of our community. > >> Besides with the way you are framing Free Software as not respecting any >> social rules then that makes Free Software not attractive which is the >> opposite of what we are trying to do here :) > I do not know what are the “social rules” of “free software”. At best, > I understand the social rules of a community working on free software. > > And this community is far to be an homogeneous whole with clear social > rules. These social rules vary and the only shared denominator is the > “free software” principles defined by four freedoms. Guix has a CoC that's the common thing we have here. For social things that is. Plus some cultural things of course. MSavoritias