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[109.90.125.150]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q18-20020a170906771200b006d2a835ac30sm1209012ejm.151.2022.02.25.08.59.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Feb 2022 08:59:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <82e00946-397a-1eff-3553-6bce4448c560@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:59:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1 Subject: Re: Update CoC adapted from upstream 2.1 (instead of 1.4) Content-Language: en-US To: zimoun , Guix Devel References: <86a6efn734.fsf@gmail.com> From: Taylan Kammer In-Reply-To: <86a6efn734.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::532 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::532; envelope-from=taylan.kammer@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x532.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.659, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1645808633; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=KsNEf3Ce4naJvlOnn5sAO1IM7bOZNCrAJqlAbo2VFfc=; b=hgmCpD1FfLEG4lSUYOGrQRChaNuwlHN4du2t/t4j+7Mfrb3jssv7PVbZiPrCJTjiZibv/s 5hpS/DaosVAtRQj73gAzfhJ0jXAtDVeT1LngFbSpz3ouy55GJQgXVCuq76Tp8VUT7E0e6b YFi+UBDd2001IU3xBZzk0LzPm3qzfTkHRwcwB7sAbV7hoosQyhhRu+qffBA60DhqQLaoTb uk4OW4ii79RKrE9x9aAIug81bCHmUIlaUkw7prG7fodVE+tzJfKPMOpsweoX7p7MUypOC7 vp026RpFLyfv8hz/7GsfJ2ZKHvZbm9r31IlNpt4PkNjY7neZrfcj7izpzA7SvQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1645808633; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=HRxJXNzararoVkGaQOR/biSwR4LwXGMyKmytpc3zv2aXqftA695yZthx+O1RrpwL1kYsPI 3ZDGeoJsiiD2SKcKNlQl3PrGZcmYKODzYMvDB+rcG/wb3FyWJ9nNIjP7mdr7IPYGBYxTyl C3+fHFTmyIJG1G6ctpnJVq/3f8gdOoWRHjA01Yy+mPTzhUKjz4aU8qKyjrmJV24vKE5nAz hF14QlY7gBrWM/d2s/c+fZq6HIeJpk8Tr8rAp75W0NbrGaGpqH0u8zTkkh9PWi9gKnmfst tqzae2aEURA9qAaRBRwrKGp6fTBTCMWdOpxQ1gkQJ4WCZ4DR1ElUR+rKUCZK8A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="I/IRXkcX"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.63 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="I/IRXkcX"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8872D28486 X-Spam-Score: -9.63 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: gQrLqKfhAIiB On 25.02.2022 01:05, zimoun wrote: > > Any opposition? > Not from me for sure. The wording "sex characteristics" was added by the author of the CoC as a response to my and others' suggestion to add "sex," and while I think it's a bad euphemism for just 'sex' (trying very hard to shoehorn the issues raised into the author's worldview), it's better than there not being any reference to sex at all. --- I have to say though, I'm deeply disappointed with the way the other thread went. All I wanted was to have a different, arguably more well-established feminist viewpoint to be respected by the CoC as well, and in response I was vilified and accused of trolling and harassment. >From what I understand, none of the active members of the Guix community know what it's like to be born with female anatomy and mistreated for that reason. Transwomen have many challenges they have to face, and some of them may be similar or equivalent to some challenges women have to face, but to claim that there are no issues unique to biologically female people (including transmen and AFAB non-binary people BTW) simply points at a rather deep ignorance towards sex discrimination. As it stands, if a person with a classical feminist consciousness about sex discrimination were to ask me whether the Guix community would show respect towards her experiences and take her issues seriously, I would not be able to reassure her. Rather, it seems that any such woman who enters the community and is open about her views is going to risk being vilified and lectured about her own lived experiences. By a group of male-born people, no less. The Guix community cannot legitimately call itself a kind and inclusive community so long as this problem stands. -- Taylan