From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id eIsoKV9MrGJjkwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 11:41:51 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id YL+jKF9MrGIekAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 11:41:51 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20495DB5C for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 11:41:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:51328 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o28U8-0001ef-Kr for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 05:41:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38104) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o28SA-0001dz-JD for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 05:39:46 -0400 Received: from baptiste.telenet-ops.be ([2a02:1800:120:4::f00:13]:46960) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o28S8-00038E-B7 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 05:39:46 -0400 Received: from ptr-bvsjgyhxw7psv60dyze.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be ([IPv6:2a02:1811:8c09:9d00:3c5f:2eff:feb0:ba5a]) by baptiste.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id k9ff270034UW6Th019ffMH; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 11:39:39 +0200 Message-ID: <7b05425306ead2c333e7671a7c32b4164e4b6a50.camel@telenet.be> Subject: Re: FSDG-compatibility of APSL-2.0 From: Maxime Devos To: zimoun , Philip McGrath , Guix Devel , Liliana Marie Prikler Cc: "(" Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 11:39:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87zgiby7yt.fsf@gmail.com> References: <11010317.nUPlyArG6x@avalon> <87zgiby7yt.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-MdOGmUYqfbCGGlrCBOb+" User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.3-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telenet.be; s=r22; t=1655458779; bh=wCKDL9GrtZJoB1YQ4qCa0adfivOSaJrZYha4x18Eh4Y=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=e5ZlD5Hj/ZDKo2HGFeQy/LPiaq+rEP271uG+YO1xu3BUsNJe0mTEA/IEmUfR+JnEM 3uX28vO5J9ERqAyZVmL9J8eoLARpGJKjlf/zXsjahlHOGy7j4i9RTrkC5ZRRjoa1e5 6xpWBcpQhZzdccAsrXVS2MwDhNTc/JkRs3csibLoe5M76RllQGsMMmOfmptWorqxwK 0DVzU9UCTx8H7tLI6+zjqy7LwPYMBGOLcOytMhW2Z5mEHBPUSbB5E+PSDpEOfL3X/W GoagomiXcB46yzYa4oT4xpyJY61CjOp4WhnLPQcyARBOtRr5VpwpQBpIoZfW2c/oXB yvH8E+uJV3r/g== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a02:1800:120:4::f00:13; envelope-from=maximedevos@telenet.be; helo=baptiste.telenet-ops.be X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1655458911; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=wCKDL9GrtZJoB1YQ4qCa0adfivOSaJrZYha4x18Eh4Y=; b=Y2I3qgykIloxC5qIj8TfF8ga3EjBQaMglsKIMUWJCWMw+GEHJAHIVJdadOilzEEbZdBUd9 vzKkWK6GX7cKYw0ePvPP4bP9l1vgmFLi1MNA1i2nyVn6WEG5eLUCuZ7eKaSe3j3rmNmSXO txLYnn+1cLES9A1mZPSxsz6zoP3IVu29APwgXUFkCtdaPxct35kGTSwLdqU6rpQpdbOtB5 iY0MUKyWsMazQ/0mb4cNyGS5Y6XXvl94Gp0eYOXK4cNImfMG3B1t8ruDajq+WqOS+7k443 fbqQx49t8Hob9EJs5JqrAjv+kYuPYPKDGkIUdSNA1ciwFHA3Aqj/2U53GpdLww== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1655458911; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=uVKEWjFpLIrnrQBQ/lxzAnXrq8u+bf1Wixjg6ZsWw13usduZ3xRGstSTGvqANdhteLXagM +xcwzkKD6QHW9F5j5FiFZdpdxKtYKZy4acvNMGGq5mAebfmYuA6/enkXVn0S2mc4aVh8BS nUla/udSwuXX1U2YbfBfRxANeta8OXrKWXLc/Ldn/EetSnwwYB6zJ9ewgZ37BYiPyJUXnF NqT4VgqUTbm5FAdk+t8vZF46WnriLmf5rZ+VJRrCFcarpC+pu4dqpUnKnO6erKF8W3H/Hx +/sJNN4X7uuVpRyHo8tcMFYUsO1uZ76Tsgp1qUfuqUUnvEIJjmgOH57jAo/4Og== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=e5ZlD5Hj; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.69 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=e5ZlD5Hj; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 20495DB5C X-Spam-Score: -4.69 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: PrqSM1u4xYCl --=-MdOGmUYqfbCGGlrCBOb+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TBC, did you see my previous mail about cherry-picking and power assymetry. > FWIW, I think that adopting a different (more stringent) license > policy hits two issues: >=20 > 1. Where do you draw the line? Based on which concrete principles > to decide for this or for that? I would like to refer to some blog article about something along the lines =E2=80=99free software is not about licenses, but about ???=E2=80=99,= but I cannot find it anymore. zimoun schreef op vr 17-06-2022 om 11:06 [+0200]: > =C2=A0I think it is not affordable to adopt a different license policy th= an > =C2=A0the one listed by the GNU project [2].=C2=A0 It is a pragmatical li= ne > =C2=A0because the Guix project does not have the manpower nor the structu= re > =C2=A0to do differently. > > And I miss what aim it would serve. That page mentions: > We classify> license according to certain criteria: > [...] > * Whether it causes any particular practical problems. > [...] Being forced to go to the US as a defendant seems like a very practical problem to me. E.g., apparently being imprisoned for 5 years or being fined for $250 000 or such is a thing in the US[0], and the prison situation in the US is reportedly bad. The clause is also rather extra-territorial: what if $local_country reforms copyright to make all sofware free, if we accepted =E2=80=98go to t= his jurisdiction clauses=E2=80=99, then opponents could effectively block the legally-enforced freeing of software by adding such a clause. Such a clause could potentially also be used to enforce a particular jurisdiction that has forbidden modifying otherwise free software entirely or somehting. [0] https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1852-copyright= -infringement-penalties-17-usc-506a-and-18-usc-2319 > 2. The GNU project is already strict on what is accepted; for good > reasons. The Guix project is a niche and being more stringent would > lead to be an even more niche. Not being subject to the US seems worth some extra niche-ness to this non-US person. Also: > I think it is not affordable to adopt a different license policy > than the one listed by the GNU project [2]. It is a pragmatical > line because the Guix project does not have the manpower nor the > structure to do differently. ... currently Guix isn't using the APSL2.0 anywhere (according to git grep -F aspl), so it seems quite practical and effortless to just remove apsl2 from (guix licenses). Greetings, Maxime. --=-MdOGmUYqfbCGGlrCBOb+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI0EABYKADUWIQTB8z7iDFKP233XAR9J4+4iGRcl7gUCYqxL1hccbWF4aW1lZGV2 b3NAdGVsZW5ldC5iZQAKCRBJ4+4iGRcl7sQrAQCUtmD1eHM6KU6FaJkTtMPFAnep nZlaDgLKvBM1RUrXrgEA7WK52m/WAYt86XSjThT7cQmbwIyK5mitpAjroCqYSgY= =2bze -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-MdOGmUYqfbCGGlrCBOb+--