From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id GGQvGNylEmLWJwEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:34:36 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id GJLmFNylEmLSXAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:34:36 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1ADE33ABA5 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:34:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:35354 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLsuh-0004ot-8H for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:34:35 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44896) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLsuV-0004oj-IW for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:34:23 -0500 Received: from libre.brussels ([144.76.234.112]:44562) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLsuT-0008UE-U5 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:34:23 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=libre.brussels; s=mail; t=1645389255; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=mTh5vsImlyvMzBtstls0uAPZsUCAtRxgluVNYUDBqE4=; b=Z7r3exSG/nl+25NSpYUcJteheRUptTS+miNWz//1m6kIsR3HoierL+RyQF8NFxTxbk9msc YAPclNWBLkJboddccFLfSLuWwHk7CnlTrqfYr4tdBJokRQ061Lj0ELlZnfhdvjUeSKwLZw daksGokzsVT1IwXDzSW1Erb4yaVkQvc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 20:34:15 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "Jonathan McHugh" Message-ID: <7739a5e2830306f431eb2fd5a102c121@libre.brussels> Subject: Re: Excessively energy-consuming software considered malware? To: "Maxime Devos" , "Taylan Kammer" , guix-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <902e44183660c5de7e76b90a1fd9ae52e527a448.camel@telenet.be> References: <902e44183660c5de7e76b90a1fd9ae52e527a448.camel@telenet.be> <2067ba1e606855eace261fd0b0ae9721b369bbd5.camel@telenet.be> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=144.76.234.112; envelope-from=indieterminacy@libre.brussels; helo=libre.brussels X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1645389276; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=mTh5vsImlyvMzBtstls0uAPZsUCAtRxgluVNYUDBqE4=; b=uRHFnopZvGqZYwMkcqwSh2dA8kABeAPV5K2d/m1iy/WZjMFp8/Kpbkox2OXGJZjK2XaNfK rJL6VaCe2yT5uHt8yxONkyhsWkC+3MYBsmuVe7H9iZdQes3kEUsY9YlKy3ZuwK9Be6P/8i mzfPqAJLSJ444+dmUkieRSAO2fEko+R2zqsyXnTSvH25NlV8y4oPS2QHPYaIylnt1S4IOJ kRzN4AiVIoN5BLI+tt2rLwnBPRqnTZQqq8PYiB5JXE4Mh8ftn2/PS3pNWZL6Zq23aN0dBE LFPvBvFVEi6FKoXIdIBEOd9R+f4F4mUzm+hAW7FiXGbXPADn2q5HRJnJWjBXug== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1645389276; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=QGyKINMrt1TzW/efRS6YACpmFn1+PCtotajdVYb6WnkqAnF1IE63U6gLRHokUCDfgZqc09 KKtYO5yNBJbU9tV6NIv7m1VBAK9s16Ygt/lz/oeDn3gyV3dXV66FG+eC0wU1s3jwhqyQZX JbmjVFZMK9mfZ9U1lfEEFaq8f8wLkwTIPrCdoZs6wjbADPLEwlSzzGzUad3rg4pKO6ranI eZwI9dvO+8OxW4kbgrhix7SYAaUciC3Akiu1Fkpuy/Xu7j6oEF/hArb8KJwvhNW2GHjgdp rtuc27wmCu405X68v5Eb261YgUNbxs0itkxmZHx9OgtjWgN8/ysRHOvIHl/PKg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=libre.brussels header.s=mail header.b=Z7r3exSG; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=libre.brussels; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.13 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=libre.brussels header.s=mail header.b=Z7r3exSG; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=libre.brussels; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1ADE33ABA5 X-Spam-Score: -3.13 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: +tBEIRwagXLk Hello Maxime, February 20, 2022 1:37 PM, "Maxime Devos" wrote: >=20 >=20More concretely, the p2pool description is: >=20 >=20=E2=80=98Monero P2Pool is a peer-to-peer Monero mining pool. P2Pool > combines the advantages of pool and solo mining; you still fully > control your Monero node and what it mines, but *you get frequent > payouts like on a regular pool.*=E2=80=99 >=20 The=20Monero description is evidently written by a marketer - thats enoug= h justification for caution. For example, the use of the word "like" in the description appears to rem= ove rather than add clarification I know which of the following statements is more reassuring: * You will be paid Saturday * You will be paid like Saturday Similarly, the repeating use of terms (P2P, mining, pool) and the name Mo= nero feels like a cynical approach at inbibing rather than educating. FWIW, Ive noticed that many toolset descriptions are turning into hyperbo= le on the homepages. Ive found that visiting forges READMEs tends to provide clearer and more = concise descriptions of what a tool is and its functions. If a concise and normative technical definition of the tool exists then m= aybe it can be considered (inspite of all the moral hazards and negative = externalities). Until then, let such hazardous pools mine their chains *all solo like* on= other OSes. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels