From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id mDVEG6zeDWA2HAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 20:55:08 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id kMghF6zeDWA/PwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 20:55:08 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE7979404DF for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 20:55:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:40412 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l3mPa-0005hX-1U for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:55:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46874) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l3mPR-0005hM-8O for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:54:57 -0500 Received: from 02c.relay.hey.com ([204.62.114.230]:55345) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l3mPP-00066o-Gn for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:54:57 -0500 Received: from hey.com (bigip-vip-new.rw-ash-int.37signals.com [10.20.0.24]) by 02.relay.hey.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0551BFACD; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 20:54:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hey.com; s=heymail; t=1611521694; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to; bh=Txi+1qNk6VhB9fpV2zk1/r1G+UYs8dZoi5JGVjNqrXs=; b=YoxOmF1OTTNj1Chb7Y2Hc3VK8D/mGrc62iHd6lIua78+2wE9Eq3q7E2JYrZ5Nmwsljl37w NSkSxajWHaNJsy3wzq5EVyf4NwOAL2EjtpgVj/UtC2zgKk9X+bQJtX81afUm0nAJVZaAnC PZeob83czbYgeDCUqd6nThQD69DoFauRBJT9WRaRRjgjY1xR1OrO4n8c/ngtuxKSIv0msb sZUzlMsyFtif1slxHjcZ2XQKc3v3y4CEr10iWOF7VfSBUWy4y/SJpAPFbXof0Kpu5whW2A mHU0KhzizJkhJkw3X8EOF6mmXNjNY7AnbfpN/+3saDfIDfn2DDaNisEnYvwK9A== Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 20:54:52 +0000 From: Ryan Prior To: Tanguy Le Carrour , Lars-Dominik Braun Message-ID: <7032ec8d7a89cfead7b12547e33ad83c3fee7dc6@hey.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Questions regarding Python packaging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_600dde9c9434b_222d3020118ed"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=204.62.114.230; envelope-from=ryanprior@hey.com; helo=02c.relay.hey.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.55 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=hey.com header.s=heymail header.b=YoxOmF1O; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=hey.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: BE7979404DF X-Spam-Score: -2.55 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: PW0iVvvIZmmm ----==_mimepart_600dde9c9434b_222d3020118ed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On January 23, 2021, Lars-Dominik Braun wrote:=0D > [...] Remove pip and=0D > setuptools from python (saves almost 20MiB from the closure and avoids=0D= > weird conflicts between python=E2=80=99s setuptools and python-setuptoo= ls) and=0D > turn them into (almost) ordinary packages.=C2=A0=0D =0D I think if we do that then Python will need a treatment similar to GCC,=0D= where we don't expose the package and instead offer a compound package=0D= (could be called "python-toolchain" or just "python") which includes pip=0D= and setuptools. The last decades of python packaging have trained people=0D= that when you install python you get pip and setuptools as well, I think=0D= we should not try to be too clever and violate that assumption.=0D =0D Also, for what it's worth, we already have python-minimal which doesn't=0D= have pip, and it's only =C2=A0=0D ----==_mimepart_600dde9c9434b_222d3020118ed Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D
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=0D
On January 23, 2021, Lars-Dominik Braun <lars@6xq.net> wrote= :
[...] Remove pip and
setuptools from python (saves = almost 20MiB from the closure and avoids
weird conflicts between pytho= n=E2=80=99s setuptools and python-setuptools) and
turn them into (almo= st) ordinary packages.=C2=A0

I think if we do that t= hen Python will need a treatment similar to GCC, where we don't expose th= e package and instead offer a compound package (could be called "pyt= hon-toolchain" or just "python") which includes pip and se= tuptools. The last decades of python packaging have trained people that w= hen you install python you get pip and setuptools as well, I think we sho= uld not try to be too clever and violate that assumption.

Also, fo= r what it's worth, we already have python-minimal which doesn't have pip,= and it's only =C2=A0
=0D
=0D =0D =0D
=0D =0D =0D ----==_mimepart_600dde9c9434b_222d3020118ed--