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Fri, 25 Feb 2022 15:38:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6e167158-97f2-ebf0-5e65-3b0e0a7f9962@philipmcgrath.com> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 15:38:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Subject: Re: Update CoC adapted from upstream 2.1 (instead of 1.4) Content-Language: en-US To: Taylan Kammer , zimoun , Guix Devel References: <86a6efn734.fsf@gmail.com> <82e00946-397a-1eff-3553-6bce4448c560@gmail.com> From: Philip McGrath In-Reply-To: <82e00946-397a-1eff-3553-6bce4448c560@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.224; envelope-from=philip@philipmcgrath.com; helo=new2-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1645821510; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=qXAj9+eJ9X4KSRcla9o92Gl7vlHFBUkwFqi2WuBqQo8=; b=cXjpJm07jCWZmf0h7kHvwQZxhb9WNsDzObozTXgOcvjKVv+AryW9jB4akPOumrDE+Tmv0r FX4XxM2sOeM/0WQxDLMp1XapBhRm1ICOY7ADiBh4S0rcz2Cy3NtAKytyn/8N4sqXjqv+3v qMcP9DjXX5CfqYMQnTdGm7pd5BN+4pvzNNYjhPJuC+NOT3t/DTngdxlB9I9NIynKTagtDf vBOfl8dzOX2cTbwxOOCi6eXI6qPmBtz3tHrYJ16aAIhOzviVZAr/VDChRWMxcouGFePDUo iYgYdRip0278k0nlcpk7eVPU1kuVBH5I5OXl+fk1MQtyLaRSf4O8MlXY5KPh1Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1645821510; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=frenkrtjHn3LXJ3GlR4zzAe51+apzt3kKUIGe0jU1wWk7HTtC7iGoRUqbm7SJ+pJxOBpr0 l6GFumJfgyjBkCGvd9ZQQ/LSfHQdePDvNuYp3+/Qarw3GKb/0On37QyFWBIR7XTDThbMc3 XkvOzuW3jM8PKISA3sMml9lrNHv7sizj7McCyz1swKAQfCdBntrYWRBgC+Z1q7gTeuEBmV z7gZTLRvKWKbU54TS2+7bYgFiHooyQJwxEEDdSo7sykFIURYUha+LNUHsIVE9WBgB++gpX NZvbo8ZqJQUkk8Y3fUpQx32SAjqYVPX9SLHFEhoH9Q1AXlZjN/5PNbW8istqAQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=philipmcgrath.com header.s=fm1 header.b="qO4NF 9g"; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=fs4VEZKb; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.27 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=philipmcgrath.com header.s=fm1 header.b="qO4NF 9g"; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=fs4VEZKb; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9605A2F2C6 X-Spam-Score: 0.27 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: eXuIrXr8S36m On 2/25/22 11:59, Taylan Kammer wrote:> Transwomen have many challenges they have to face, and some of them may be > similar or equivalent to some challenges women have to face, but to claim I'm concerned that framing "transwomen" and "women" as though they were two contrasting groups is itself inconsistent with the current CoC's standard of "using welcoming and inclusive language". While I think the best reading of "Le Deuxième Sexe" affirms that trans women are women, I agree with those who have already said that this list is not a suitable forum for debating the finer points of feminist theory. It seems to me that one of the reasons to have a CoC is to communicate that the identities and experiences of people who face discrimination are not up for debate. Yet here it seems they are, in fact, being called into question, even though people have already expressed discomfort and asked for it to stop or move off-list. I've bcc'ed guix-maintainers@gnu.org, since someone requested that earlier. -Philip P.S.: Personally, I'm fine with either the current CoC text or with Simon's proposed update to bring it into alignment with upstream, if that has consensus.