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From: Liliana Marie Prikler To: Maxime Devos , guix-devel@gnu.org Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 19:26:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <2067ba1e606855eace261fd0b0ae9721b369bbd5.camel@telenet.be> References: <2067ba1e606855eace261fd0b0ae9721b369bbd5.camel@telenet.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.42.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::541 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::541; envelope-from=liliana.prikler@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x541.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.659, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1645381674; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=0mZ2yEbeg1jGObnZk+91A3p/oGtmmfNBiAXWLFU8mvs=; b=OqnFDNoBSrvL63YXrRyGbLAJeu2YBA/WrKm9pkdiEn22LTbykJENRK+lbOXxWrzyasbv0d 5Sg/LPHwv+yA+zCK3VNa8zvnaOPW2SKnBmB0Qby6WJccWHY4g2SkCtQc21PQr3iVOWOWLb cKdecdqjSKxKaOZRgs+dRRQrx3yp2ML7gMjzDGGhyRloYXu3FD0zAySH33T8CQOGmMayy3 NQeejgq9f3hhuCh4gexrxAh+xIwPJ5A5Y4oa58Dp/5wx2O4BgcVZYU/EcwossPMPsUxp4H lJ2IotACWgaDhYNGtoUJJ+/8FXvLBSWjg+viRMIsnYdR2hhP0WEDNYHmFaif5Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1645381674; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=iO70wf4aYzpXQoe9BhpcOFtmnZAmO1fl2yVbkWO78ppqinfqkwksOBwx/WZu05ee4SjBrF p1X/fTZIUqImdVbn3Bu5nJVmida+HSzHWd/xlD6U1KdkHtKs3ZqTGDvp0SlNT1ATy1TCX7 KIFQonQ1WMRhBVpfKL+ebYH95VwCKpbbs8/Qx5T8vr92eezOkXgKF98kJVDXoeAGMDVDrK CoWzvIFRlc1DBOLktTUGZ/vBefJGpUik3M7vZfJtY6Q1h2ocZbMwF0lC+URIIArR8h4pwW 4Cn/lMlj5H9BQDvyN737AeZTC1GIZCR3t0jpUBwLQ6U49kyxX8kw38CLPN2dew== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=opPO8DpN; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.13 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=opPO8DpN; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 199C937DC5 X-Spam-Score: -7.13 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 4R6MSGeZfQxR Hi Maxime, Am Sonntag, dem 20.02.2022 um 11:05 +0100 schrieb Maxime Devos: > [CC'ing some people in Guix I know to be interested in cryptocurrency] > > Hi, > > Guix packages some cryptocurrency(*) software (bitcoin, monero, some > people have been working on packaging ethereum).  So far, it only > appeared that clients are being packaged. > > More recently, a ‘miner’ for monero has been packaged > (https://issues.guix.gnu.org/54068).  At least for bitcoin, mining is > known to consume an absurd amount of energy (the footprint of a whole > country, and 1 Bitcoin transaction is said to be equivalent to 735121 > Visa transactions)[1]. > > Guix has a policy against including malware[citation needed 2], and > furthering global warming[3] (and energy prices[4], if [3] is not bad > enough for you) seems rather bad behaviour to me. > > Would these miners be considered malware in Guix? > > TBC I'm not making a case for rejecting all inefficient software, only > software that is absurdly inefficient by design -- a, say, math > library not using vectorised operations might be quite a bit less > inefficient than a math library using vectorised operations, but that > can be resolved with some programming work and it would seem to pale in > contrast to the mining situation. I don't think there's a case that can be made from the FSF's point of view against wasteful software if the waste is intentional (which is sadly part of the point of cryptocoins). To make my point in a more accessible manner, `guix show stress' yields (as expected) --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- name: stress version: 1.0.5 outputs: out systems: x86_64-linux i686-linux dependencies: autoconf@2.69 automake@1.16.3 location: gnu/packages/admin.scm:2214:2 homepage: https://packages.debian.org/sid/stress license: GPL 2+ synopsis: Impose load on and stress test a computer system description: Stress is a tool that imposes a configurable amount of CPU, memory, I/O, or disk stress on a + POSIX-compliant operating system and reports any errors it detects. + + Stress is not a benchmark. It is a tool used by system administrators to evaluate how well their systems will scale, + by kernel programmers to evaluate perceived performance characteristics, and by systems programmers to expose the + classes of bugs which only or more frequently manifest themselves when the system is under heavy load. relevance: 29 --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Cheers