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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1734196718; bh=/NHrYT/mAx9IGoe9hmvS2xWmAZDLxWWxzhp3cpO/S24=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=hQFNgNQEHhiW929Yci/+Xaoo3IC68YFoTQSALeHNZS09TCATpkbP9Jn5jt4NC5EP3 irPcBkOiVufCj5QXczXIjZXH0F/4c3akW8T4tZxaQucayx6ZV5Ioy3qJ8NXUgKTLC9 iKIGljwhWkNEF/jY7XqrADYtiW/PsiEccBdqMhjCPAw2zOdULt5Zn4mi1GAIVf4H4x 7TvU/oBOnu+1YS6fDdKmA7wWtHQMsJpJLFGw6ocjj+nECM+CK8f0RGmrEZSCo6IoEb +TVMzA0KDCguQacqGEoukgKnJXcumXTrOGpBeZD8stx+Eu7qguTTz4El/BwZpnR2it JGsqHDXfocTSg== Message-ID: <6258f31b-ac97-4071-a38f-308fdb3c3015@disroot.org> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:18:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: On the quest for a new release model To: John Kehayias , "Felix Lechner via \"Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.\"" Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , Felix Lechner , Suhail Singh , Cayetano Santos , Greg Hogan References: <87a5d0dlm8.fsf@inventati.org> <87ttb7rds6.fsf@elephly.net> <87ed2b3ffk.fsf@gmail.com> <87seqrbmwy.fsf@gmail.com> <87cyhvo8dd.fsf@inventati.org> <87cyhvbit6.fsf@gmail.com> <877c835izk.fsf@elephly.net> <87ed2bkwpz.fsf@lease-up.com> <87a5cz6o31.fsf@protonmail.com> From: kiasoc5 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87a5cz6o31.fsf@protonmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.21.23.139; envelope-from=kiasoc5@disroot.org; helo=layka.disroot.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 918EF7C73A X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.99 X-Spam-Score: -7.99 X-TUID: knoz/2Fnz8YJ Hi all, On 12/13/24 20:38, John Kehayias via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution. wrote: > Hi all, > > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 03:08 PM, Felix Lechner via \"Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.\" wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 13 2024, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: >> >>> Our releases should mean something. >> >> What do they mean, please? >> > > This is actually related to the topic I wanted to bring up before we really get lost in the details of release building and so on. > > I've always thought about Guix as a rolling distribution, where our "releases" are essentially installer "snapshots." In other words, the installer has maybe gotten improvements and certainly been thoroughly tested along with good substitute coverage and functionality across all (or as much as we can muster) of Guix. This tagged version is important to make sure there is binary substitute downloads (and maybe a corresponding manual online). > > There is no expectation, nor really support, for staying on a "release." One is expected (and warned by guix even) to occasionally at least run "guix pull" if not upgrading, reconfiguring, etc. However, we do have powerful tools for staying at some particular commit, through time-machine, channel pinning, and so on. I agree with replacing the word "release" with "installer version". On distros with stable releases (Ubuntu, NixOS, etc), there is an expectation for support of packages (usually security updates) for the lifetime of the release. Seeing that the Guix versioned branches do not get any additional support beyond binary substitutes and a manual for the purpose of installation, the word "release" is not justified at this time. But if Guix "releases" just exist for the purpose of versioning the installer, then it is the same as how a rolling release like Arch does it, where the installer is versioned and users are expected to upgrade their system afterwards (but not necessarily the installer). Even with tools for managing packages at a specific commit, that's unique to a rolling release model where each commit is exposed to the user. The same cannot be said for versioned releases.